thomas c Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 https://tinyurl.com/y8qnju5h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerriman Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 As you know, the bot only works double-dummy.. double dummy, GIBs play at trick 3 was irrelevant; your play at trick 6 was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythdoc Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Yes, but how much better to ruff on trick 3 then lead out the low spade. Might go down two. South has my sympathies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 [hv=lin=st||pn|thomas%20c,~robot,~robot,~robot|md|4SA9HKJDAK8632C765,SJ4H7652D954CAKJ4,SQ75HT84DJCQT9832,SKT8632HAQ93DQT7C|sv|e|rh||ah|Board%206|mb|1S|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20!S;%2011-21%20HCP;%2012-22%20total%20points|mb|2D|an|Two-level%20overcall%20--%205+%20!D;%2010+%20HCP;%2011-18%20total%20points|mb|D|an|Negative%20double%20--%204+%20!H;%209+%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|2H|an|4+%20!H;%205+%20!S;%2011+%20HCP;%2012-16%20total%20points|mb|3D|an|6+%20!D;%2014-18%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|P|mb|3H|an|4+%20!H;%205+%20!S;%2011+%20HCP;%2012-15%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|DA|pc|D9|pc|DJ|pc|D7|pc|DK|pc|D4|pc|S5|pc|DQ|pc|D8|pc|D5|pc|C3|pc|DT|pc|HA|pc|HJ|pc|H2|pc|H4|pc|H3|pc|HK|pc|H5|pc|H8|pc|SA|pc|S4|pc|S7|pc|S3|pc|S9|pc|SJ|pc|SQ|pc|SK|pc|HQ|pc|D2|pc|H6|pc|HT|pc|ST|pc|D3|pc|C4|pc|C2|pc|S8|pc|D6|pc|CJ|pc|CQ|pc|S6|pc|C5|pc|CK|pc|C8|pc|S2|pc|C6|pc|CA|pc|CT|pc|H9|pc|C7|pc|H7|pc|C9|]300|300|thomas c+++++++++++++++ Frustrating :( GIB doesn't understand McKenny/Lavinthal signals, so you might as well lead ♦2 (although GIB might still fail to ruff).[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerriman Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 I ran the following simulation (extra diamonds with South under the assumption that East wouldn't throw the queen, ruling out North hoping the trick holds): north SQ75, HT84, DJ, CQT9832west SJ4, H7652, D954, CAKJ4south DAK8632east DQ7 south 14-18 total pointseast >=5 spades, >=4 hearts, >=11 HCP, 12-15 total points Result of 500 deals: - trump and club equal on 197 deals- trump better on 139 deals- club better on 164 deals Obviously assumes double dummy play from both N/S, but that's a given.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 As you know, the bot only works double-dummy.. double dummy, GIBs play at trick 3 was irrelevant; your play at trick 6 was not.As a reminder, it is double dummy on a set of hands that meet the specs of the bidding and play so far. It isn't double dummy on the exact hand that is being played. On this hand, GIBs play didn't cost a trick, but there are plenty where trick 3 would have cost a trick. e.g. South has ♥QJ. Then North can ruff, cross to ♠A, and the ruff with ♦10 to promote a trump trick for South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerriman Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 As a reminder, it is double dummy on a set of hands that meet the specs of the bidding and play so far. It isn't double dummy on the exact hand that is being played. On this hand, GIBs play didn't cost a trick, but there are plenty where trick 3 would have cost a trick.Correct, but there are even more times when trick 3 gains a trick, because GIB cannot rule out South having 7 diamonds. See sim above. Eg: [hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?n=SQ75HT84DJCQT9832&e=SAKT62HKJ93DQ7C75&s=S983HAQDAKT8632C6&a=1S2DDP2H3DPP3HPPP&d=e&p=DAD9DJD7DKD4S5DQD8D5]400|300[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Correct, but there are even more times when trick 3 gains a trick, because GIB cannot rule out South having 7 diamonds. See sim above. Eg: [hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?n=SQ75HT84DJCQT9832&e=SAKT62HKJ93DQ7C75&s=S983HAQDAKT8632C6&a=1S2DDP2H3DPP3HPPP&d=e&p=DAD9DJD7DKD4S5DQD8D5]400|300[/hv]Where is ♦10 on the 3rd round of diamonds??? A decent human player would know 100% that declarer had the 10. If partner had ♦10, they would have led it and North could pitch another spade. If partner had ♥AQ, North would eventually get a spade ruff. But maybe you are right. Maybe "GIB" can't rule out that South had 7 diamonds even though a human player would know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas c Posted June 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 As you know, the bot only works double-dummy.. double dummy, GIBs play at trick 3 was irrelevant; your play at trick 6 was not.while i agree the a of spades was not best, if the bot ruffs the third diamond he has to lose 2 more tricks a of spades and k of hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas c Posted June 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Yes, but how much better to ruff on trick 3 then lead out the low spade. Might go down two. South has my sympathies. actually leading the 2 of diamonds causes the bot to ruff. i checked others and sure enough he ruffs when the 2 is led. i dont like this but i can live with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 actually leading the 2 of diamonds causes the bot to ruff. i checked others and sure enough he ruffs when the 2 is led. i dont like this but i can live with itIt makes no sense that leading the 2 causes GIB to ruff. GIB does not understand card signals. Some kind of odd glitch in the play engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythdoc Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 actually leading the 2 of diamonds causes the bot to ruff. i checked others and sure enough he ruffs when the 2 is led. i dont like this but i can live with it Somehow I am reassured by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas c Posted June 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 As you know, the bot only works double-dummy.. double dummy, GIBs play at trick 3 was irrelevant; your play at trick 6 was not.just curious. what would u have lead at trick 6. it is obvious the bot is void in clubs. a diamond gives a ruff sluff. as it turns out this is best but i dont think its so easy to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerriman Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 just curious. what would u have lead at trick 6. it is obvious the bot is void in clubs. a diamond gives a ruff sluff. as it turns out this is best but i dont think its so easy to see.Oh, I'm definitely not saying you *should* have done something differently. Simply that GIB is unable to distinguish lines which require you to guess, and lines which don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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