Guest Jlall Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Axxx x AKT9x xxx You open 1D (precision style) it goes, 1H, 2C, 3H. You now choose to bid 3S which I'm sure many will not agree with but thats what you do. Your partner bids 5C now, do you try 6? note: 4C should be absolutely forcing but with this particular partner you know they would be scared to bid 4C as it might be passed out. Form of game is imps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 If this is the auction 1♦.....1♥.....2♣.....3♥3♠...pass...5♣...pass then I think I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 yes thats the auction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 I would argue that your 3♠ bid already showed partner a good hand for clubs. I don't think you would bid spades on a misfitting hand. Thus partner should have taken this into account when bidding 5♣. Also partner will value holdings such as Qxx in spades on this auction and you may already be high enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpenz Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 partner coud cue bid hearts over three spades didnt...so i am passing....partner needs solid clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Yikes it has been a long time since old Goren red book precision.Pass I would have passed over 3H and assume P could have bid 4h or 4nt over my 3s if they want aces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 I read and adopted many years ago that one should try to invision the pefect MINIMUM hand consistent with pard's bidding, and if this minimum perfect hand produced a lay-down slam then your hand was worth a slam try. With this as a yardstick, I can see x, Axx, xx, KQJ10xxx as a perfect minimum for this bidding - trouble is, I'm too high to make any "try". Credit the opps for putting me in a tough spot and for us not knowing exactly what this sequence implies verses 4C or a 4H cue bid. I like best what Mike Lawrence said in his book about Team Games: (I paraphrase) When you run out of intelligent ways to investigate a higher contract, the best thing to do is stop and not stretch. Pard may well have the perfect hand - but he may well not. On this auction, he may hold: KQ, xxx, xx, KQJ10xx. Too bad I can't find this out - but if I can't, then I pass. WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Fourrière Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 I would try 6♣. I could have longer diamonds and less useful spades. It is true that partner may or may not have deduced my singleton heart from the bidding, but he has three hearts if he did. so I have more than I have shown for a contract in clubs. It is 7♣ which needs a magical holding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 I disagree with the 3♠ bid, especially if the partnership is unestablished. I would have passed over 3♥. This gives partner more room to show his/her hand. P might have bid 3♠/ 3♥. The bidding for the partnership went too fast. Pass 5♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 6C. Pard very well could be petrified to bid 6 but you are All prime and have the heart control. Somehow 7 solid and out sounds like a 4C call yet if pard has a 3rd heart 6 rolls even with AK - 7th. And either pointed cArd and 6 should be cold. Last - if pard has. AQ the hook rates to work. Sometimes at the table we tend to think 'well I really stretched to bid 3S, so I'll pull back a notch' That's the wrong approach on a hand like this. Also, what your tendencies with 5S'S and 6 D's? If you open 1D with this, then a 6C makes even more sense as pard might be bidding into a 5161. Last - I'm trusting my expert opponents to keep bidding with 11 trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 If this is the auction 1♦.....1♥.....2♣.....3♥3♠...pass...5♣...pass then I think I pass.I too pass on that auction --- you have a MAX of 15 points playing Precision, and P knows that :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 I read and adopted many years ago that one should try to invision the pefect MINIMUM hand consistent with pard's bidding, and if this minimum perfect hand produced a lay-down slam then your hand was worth a slam try. With this as a yardstick, I can see x, Axx, xx, KQJ10xxx as a perfect minimum for this bidding - trouble is, I'm too high to make any "try". Credit the opps for putting me in a tough spot and for us not knowing exactly what this sequence implies verses 4C or a 4H cue bid. I like best what Mike Lawrence said in his book about Team Games: (I paraphrase) When you run out of intelligent ways to investigate a higher contract, the best thing to do is stop and not stretch. Pard may well have the perfect hand - but he may well not. On this auction, he may hold: KQ, xxx, xx, KQJ10xx. Too bad I can't find this out - but if I can't, then I pass. WinstonM You said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Yep I pass. What has that to do with Goren? Point is: 3♠ must be bid on ♣ tolerance. For that I have nothing more partner needs to know. 6♣ would be the same hand + ♣K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reisig Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 There was no way for partner to make a try over 3♠..except 4♥ and that bid is impossible with xx or xxx. I agree that 3♠ would not be my choice ...I'd prefer 4♣ if anything...then we have more cooperation chances since 3♠ may have been 4(5)♠ and 6♦. I'd bid 6♣...I don't have to play it! Partner with most any hand with AKJxxxx has a shot..even AQJxxxxx (8) and 2-3♥ is a clear winner.Bid it fast ..they'll save anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Bid it fast ..they'll save anyway. Yes, when it's right, and they won't if it's wrong. Welcome to the union of the VUBPW. I am a life time president, but we could do with a treasurer to count the non existent $. Just a job for you Richie ;) Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Yep I pass. What has that to do with Goren? Goren wrote the Precision book with CC Wei around 1971 that turned America and us new College boys onto strong club biddding and Precision. Altman, Weischel and all the young long hair hippie boys winning helped to. In those days there were no Blue team books or others to buy. Some of us are still waiting 20+ years later to buy that Meckwell book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 6♣ for the reasons phil stated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 At the table I passed, though in retrospect I think this is an error. Partner had 8 solid clubs and 2 hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reisig Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Justin is usually brave....but a chicken here:))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 At the table I passed, though in retrospect I think this is an error. I wouldn't be so hard on myself, Justin. In my mind, the problem was the lack of agreement - as you said, it was unclear to you whether partner would consider 4C forcing. If 4C is not forcing, then 5C has to cater to many more hands and you are left guessing what to do. When it is unclear, all you can do is take your best guess and live with it. Sometimes even the best guess wrong in the heat of battle. WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Indeed I was a chicken :) Yes, I have no regrets about my decision because at the time I thought it was best (thinking was something like partner is under pressure, etc etc). However whenever imps are lost I always look to see what I could have done better and if it was double dummy or not. Here I think perhaps I should get this one right as I rate to be facing a solid club suit and 2-3 hearts. It's certainly a close call and perhaps I am resulting myself, but I like richie's comment alot that partner had no slam try available if he has no heart control. This is pretty critical. Who knows, looks like the poll backed up my table decision heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 I like that thinking, too; however, partner also has no slam try if all he wants to do is play in game. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reisig Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Justin feels better because the "poll" backs up his action. I think - he really doesn't feel better ..just that there others that agree with what he did. Hard to convince partner that you were right because some others agree with you..they never have sympathy..at least with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothy Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 i would bid 6♣ on the strength of my singleton H and the assumption that he could have bid 4♣ forcing so he must have practically running ♣ (with my support) and values outside. Of course, i would tell Richie that i passed 5♣ so he could call me a chicken...and then point out that i had made a numerical typo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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