Both reasonable and ethic?

[jahol]

IMP competition, nonvul against vul, loosing in competition against skillful opponents, I had this treasure:

 

QJ9863--1082--53--76.

 

Good hand for preempt, but I was the last one and the auction was:

 

LHO-----------CHO------------RHO------------ME

 

1D ad1)------2C ad2)--------2H ad3)--------2S ad4)

4C ad5)------4S ad6)--------pass ad7)------pass

5D ad8)------double ad9)----5H--------------pass

pass----------double ad10)--pass------------????

 

 

ad1) playing strong club and major 5-card openings, all hands fitting with the rest

ad2) natural, no four and more card in major suit

ad3) natural, 5 cards at least, non-forcing

ad4) should not bid that, I know....but trying to do something when loosing the match

ad5) splinter, slam possibilities

ad6) young and aggressive... and good

ad7) forcing

ad8) still trying to bid slam in hearts

ad9) after some hesitation

ad10) after much longer hesitation

 

Do you think that:

 

1) I should bid five spades provided that my partner double was made without hesitation?

2) if yes, do you think that I am still allowed to bid five spades after long hesitation before the double my partner made?

[Guest Jlall]

1) no I would just pass and pray.

2) certainly not. The thing to ask yourself in these situations is A) did partner hesitate B ) does his hesitation suggest any specific action and C) is there a logical alternative to that action.

 

A sounds like a yes

B obviously a slow double would make it more likely for a pull to be right

C passing the X is certainly a logical alternative. If we trust pard he has them beat in his hand.

[pigpenz]

Pard can hear the auction, there is too much going on at this table! So you have to trust him. I would pass.

[Al_U_Card]

This is the "Flat tire" syndrome. Losing the match notwithstanding, it makes little difference whether you ran over glass, or just had a poorly maintained tire, you have a flat! The cure is to not bid 2S. Pass (and bid later if appropriate) or jump the bidding immediately and take the consequences. In your situation, live with your (lack of) bidding judgment and PASS the double with apologies in hand for pard for your bidding with no good reason. :)

[mycroft]

1) pass and hope. Three things can happen:

a) 5Hx makes, possibly with overtricks. But 5S is a phantom, or 800 into 850. You bear the guilt, and partner should accept your prompt apology.

b) 5Hx makes, 5S would have been a good save. Probably still won't be a good save against the expected +650 by teammates, but it might be. You are the hero.

c) 5Hx goes down, because partner has four top tricks, three of which cash. 5S still don't make. You are the hero for pushing them to 5..unless you pull, in which case you are the goat, and partner isn't going to accept your apology.

 

c) is the one you will always remember...as will your teammates. You might have been right or wrong to swing, but if 5H is going off, and +14 would have won you the match, and you went minus instead, you may never play with them again. Letting them make 5Hx in a) and b) are simply "sorry partner".

 

2) Now c) is impossible, partner doesn't have them set in her own hand. Now, you're going to get a better score by pulling (though likely still a minus, unless you've goaded them into striped-tail-ape territory) and you know it - because of the information partner gave you in her hesitation, which you must "carefully avoid taking advantage of" - Law 73C.

 

In other words, pulling in 1) is only bad, and could kill the partnership in one hand; pulling in 2) is illegal, and will be rolled back if it works, and you'll get to eat it if it's wrong (but has the advantage that it probably won't kill the partnership - partner isn't likely to go after you for "I might have had it set in my own hand. Did you think about that?", the way she will over "I *had* them set...")

 

All legality aside, one of my meta-rules is that if I've made an "iffy decision", I did it because I thought it was right, and I have to back that decision to the bitter end. Another is that if I psych (and if this isn't a deliberate and gross misdescription of strength, I don't know what is), I get shared credit for any good result we get, but I get all the blame for a bad result, no matter how blindingly obvious it was, or how many blindingly stupid things partner did.

 

Michael (edited to replace idiotic picture with "Just display what I type, TYVM" and put up the right Law cite (NRBH, and I should have looked it up online)).

Edited June 2, 2005 by mycroft

[fifee]

jahol wrote:

 

QJ9863--1082--53--76.

 

Good hand for preempt, but I was the last one and the auction was:

 

LHO-----------CHO------------RHO------------ME

 

1D ad1)------2C ad2)--------2H ad3)--------2S ad4)

 

Even NV vs vul, bidding as advancer with this hand will cause you grief later. Your partner expects values from you - counting on it actually. So whatever actions he takes will cause you concern. Disciplined pass here will solve your problem about whether to pull partner's double later.

 

Passing and then bidding ♠ later is a possibility. That tells partner that you have length but no strength. Pre-emptive jump could be appropriate, too, but should be discussed in advance. I prefer a pre-emptive jump after partner has bid to be fit-showing just in case partner has none of my suit.

 

The long hesitation was probably because partner was trying to figure out who was lying in the bidding ;)

 

P Anderson

[kenberg]

Q1: I pass and lead the Queen of spades. I don't expect this to work but I don't think it is impossible for partner to have the King of spades, the King of Diamonds, and the Ace of clubs, all cashing if I start a spade. I also see no reason why 5S can't go for a lot.

 

Q2: "Am I allowed to" is a tough question to deal with. If I interpret it as "If I were on a committee reviewing a pull (after a substantial hesitation) to 5S would I roll it back?", yes, I would. If the question means "Would I bid 5S" the answer is no, I wouldn't. First, since my answer to 1 is Pass, I can't. I gather you think the answer to 1 is Pull, so I will turn to that: I am sure that if 5SX did get a better score the opponents would summon the police and the score would be rolled back to 5HX making. Generally I subscribe to the rule that if I am positive (and I mean positive, I don't mean just that I can supply an argument) in my own mind I would have pulled without a hesitation then I also pull with the hesitation and let others tell me if I am wrong. There are hands, however, where I see no future in such a path because I am sure others will vote me down even if I believe the choice is clear. Here, I think even if you believe you have a pull, forget it. It has no future.