PhilG007 Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 I'm keen to know how a top pair would bid this hand particularly how South would open in the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Hi, 4H was an offbeat action, but it worked on the given hand.If West gets the option to show a preemptive spade hand, he will do this,and this may lead to non diamond lead. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullve Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Opening 1♣ might have worked. Test (againt basic robots):[hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=st||pn|nullve,~~M1044681,~~M3888w48,~~M5322po8|md|1SAHKQJT985DAT3CJ7,SQJ986532HA7DJ85C,SK4H432DQ962CAT98,ST7H6DK74CKQ65432|sv|e|rh||ah|Board%2019|mb|1C|mb|3S|an|Aggressive%20weak%20jump%20overcall%20--%207+%20!S;%2011-%20HCP;%203+%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|P|mb|3N|an|3+%20!C;%205-%20!H;%205-%20!S;%2021%20HCP;%2022%20total%20points;%20likely%20stop%20in%20!S|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|D5|pc|D2|pc|D4|pc|DT|pc|HK|pc|HA|pc|H2|pc|H6|pc|SQ|pc|S4|pc|S7|pc|SA|pc|HQ|pc|H7|pc|H3|pc|C2|pc|HJ|pc|S2|pc|H4|pc|C3|pc|HT|pc|S8|pc|C8|pc|C5|pc|H9|pc|S9|pc|D6|pc|C6|pc|H8|pc|S6|pc|C9|pc|C4|pc|H5|pc|S5|pc|CT|pc|ST|pc|C7|pc|D8|pc|CA|pc|CQ|pc|SK|pc|D7|pc|CJ|pc|SJ|pc|D9|pc|DK|pc|DA|pc|DJ|pc|D3|pc|S3|pc|DQ|pc|CK|]4400|300[/hv]The same tactic backfired in yesterday's BBO Forums Sunday Daylong, though: [hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=st||pn|nullve,~Mwest,~Mnorth,~Meast|md|1SK74HAKQJ62DT43CA,SAJ2H9874DKJ7CT54,S863HDA8652CKQ987,SQT95HT53DQ9CJ632|sv|b|rh||ah|Board%207|mb|1C|an|Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203+%20!C;%2011-21%20HCP;%2012-22%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|1D|an|One%20over%20one%20--%204+%20!D;%206+%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|2N|mb|P|mb|3C|an|4+%20!C;%204+%20!D;%207+%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|3N|mb|P|mb|5C|an|5+%20!C;%204+%20!D;%2011-13%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|6N|an|3-5%20!C;%202%20!D;%202-4%20!H;%202-4%20!S;%2018-19%20HCP;%2022-%20total%20points;%20partial%20stop%20in%20!H;%20partial%20stop%20in%20!S|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|H4|pc|S3|pc|HT|pc|HQ|pc|HA|pc|H7|pc|S6|pc|H5|pc|HK|pc|H9|pc|D2|pc|H3|pc|HJ|pc|H8|pc|D5|pc|ST|pc|H6|pc|C4|pc|D6|pc|S9|pc|H2|pc|D7|pc|S8|pc|D9|pc|CA|pc|C5|pc|C7|pc|C6|pc|D3|pc|DJ|pc|DA|pc|DQ|pc|CK|pc|C3|pc|S4|pc|CT|pc|CQ|pc|C2|pc|D4|pc|DK|pc|D8|pc|S5|pc|DT|pc|S2|pc|SK|pc|SA|pc|C8|pc|SQ|pc|SJ|pc|C9|pc|CJ|pc|S7|]400|300[/hv]. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilowsky Posted June 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 It's an action that I have on my card and play happily all the time with some partners. My partners that I use it with use the cover card method to decide whether or not to raise me to slam or bid 4NT. Statements such as "this is an offbeat action" or sentences that begin with the only possible course of action with this hand... generally lead me to think that there must definitely be a better way of doing it. "this plaayer needs to understaand how poor the bid is" is another one that is sure to make me think that I am on to something useful!I have seen convention cards that are so dense that you need a power tool to lift them. That kind of bridge is not for me. Tarrasch might approve but Botvinnik would not and Kotov would detest it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 It's an action that I have on my card and play happily all the time with some partners.<snip>I have seen convention cards that are so dense that you need a power tool to lift them. That kind of bridge is not for me. Tarrasch might approve but Botvinnik would not and Kotov would detest it.And it did work, the 12th trick was there for the taking, this assumes you got the diamond lead. If you want to win tournaments, you cant play by the book all the time, you have to mixe it up a bit,but if you do, than this can back fire, the book will give you EV+ or EV=, but usually not EV++, to winyou need some EV++, and than make sure you dont blow it. But going for EV++ risks lots of EV-.If the winds favor you, than you win, otherwise not. And: Tarrasch was dogmatic, but I am not so sure Botvinnik was a big fan of off beat actions, Kotov maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenikki Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Last week I decided to open 2♣ with x-AKQxxxx-void-KQJxx. Needless to say, partner bids a lot of spades and opps a lot of diamonds, and it ended up being partner who had to make the last semi-blind guess. With a partner who can forgive a bit of masterminding I think I would just open 6♥. I believe that's the best bid. Maybe if you play Namyats or something similar you could use that also. 5♥ may be better if you have discussed with p what that means. But hoping for an intelligent auction is not realistic. But of course the books say that opening 6 of a suit shows a hand whose only loser is the missing A or K of trumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenikki Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Playing for IMPS i would open at 4 level showing a 7-8 card major with 5 LTC. The problem is that partner does not know how many aces you hold. To counter this problem you open 4♥/♠ holding 0-1 aces and 4♣/♦ holding 2-4 aces. After 4♦ you bid as follows : 4♥ = transfer to 4♠ being to play with 8 LTC or worse, or being slam forcing with 1-4 aces and 7 LTC or better and you want partner to play4♠ = slam forcing with 0 aces and 7 LTC or better (partner pass with 2 aces and bids slam forcing with 3-4 aces)4nt = 5-RKC holding 1-4 aces 7 LTC or better (doesn't matter who is playing)5♣/♦/♥ = 4-EBW holding 1-3 aces 7 LTC or better with a void in ♣, ♦ or ♥5♠/nt = trump quantitative asking for 6/7♠ if partner holds AK/AQ/KQ in ♠ After 4♦ - 4♥ - 4♠ you bid as follows : pass = to playrest = slam forcing holding 1-4 aces After 4♠ you bid as follows : pass = to playrest = slam forcing holding 2-4 aces You loose a preemptive bid in a minor at 4 level but that is a price I am willing to pay. Half your possible suit slams will be in a minor. You provide an elaborate structure for the other half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfi Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 But of course the books say that opening 6 of a suit shows a hand whose only loser is the missing A or K of trumps.That book probably should be put back on the shelf. That hand is vanishingly rare, not all that difficult to manage when it comes up, and draws a blueprint for the opposition if you do open it. On the other hand, there are many more hands where you might decide to turn the auction into a guessing game and not having the bid available becomes problematic. I'm not saying this is the hand for it, but I could cope if partner decided to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamijd Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 You have to separate real bridge from robot bridge. They are different games. In real bridge, playing some sort of standard (not big club) system, I would open 1H in first, second, or fourth seats without much thought. You don't preempt with two outside Aces, NAMYATS or no. Third seat I think 4H is reasonable. In robot bridge, however, you have to be mindful of the fact that you have the best hand. Partner has at most 15 HCP, but probably far less. So opening 4H to create action isn't so outrageous. Personally, even vs the GIBbers I don't think this is a good hand for a 4H opener. First, you are white vs. red, so preventing the opponents from finding their spade fit might be a loser rather than a winner. Second, you are relatively balanced outside H. I would be more inclined to open 4H if I were 74. As for the play, I'm going to assume East withheld the Kd at trick one. Otherwise, a competent baboon (or should I say GIBbon) can make 6. The only way to make 6 if East keeps his Kd is to take advantage of the fact that West has a club void to run a minor suit squeeze against East. Draw trump, and when West can't break things up by leading a club, it's all over. Play the As, and run the trump. Now play a club to the Ace. Come down to: K--Qx opposite ----AxJ When you play the Ks, East is cooked. He can't keep both the guarded Kd and a club honor. Cheers,Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenikki Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 That book probably should be put back on the shelf. That hand is vanishingly rare, not all that difficult to manage when it comes up, and draws a blueprint for the opposition if you do open it. On the other hand, there are many more hands where you might decide to turn the auction into a guessing game and not having the bid available becomes problematic. I'm not saying this is the hand for it, but I could cope if partner decided to do it. No "that book." All books that mention the opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjennifer Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 Sir,I shall open it 4 CLUB..I need not elaborate on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjennifer Posted June 22, 2020 Report Share Posted June 22, 2020 duplicate deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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