Upcoming changes to BBO procedure

[DarrenE]

I am running many free tournaments and will start charging a small subscription form August. I have emailed BBO to ask how we might contribute something, but have not yet had a reply. I do not want to deal with pay per session fees.

[pescetom]

The first of July is here. Are the proposed new terms and conditions available to read somewhere?

[barmar]

Maybe you didn’t see the comments bout clubs who are hosting free games and collecting entry fees in another way.

Some of these have made special arrangements with BBO management, and they are paying us for the right to do this.

 

We've also discovered some people doing this without such an arrangement, and we've been taking away their hosting rights.

[gentgiant]

Some of these have made special arrangements with BBO management, and they are paying us for the right to do this.

 

We've also discovered some people doing this without such an arrangement, and we've been taking away their hosting rights.

 

 

When will the August changes be announced?

[pescetom]

When will the August changes be announced?

 

I asked the same on 1st [edit]July, don't recall receiving a reply.

 

 

 

On 2nd[edit]July we all received the following apparently reassuring message - hopefully it means what it says and that no new limits will be imposed on free tournaments after all.

 

July 1st: Restrictions removed – We’re Back!

by Alexandra | Posted on June 29, 2020

 

Dear BBOers,

 

During these past few months we saw incredible numbers of new players finding refuge online and we were forced to impose limitations here and there to cope with the massive volume of users, tables, boards played…

 

Our techs worked day and night to increase capacity and add more power, memory, machines, servers until the systems stabilized and finally we can say that the worst is behind us. ����

 

We are happy to announce that as of July 1st, BBO is back on track! Limits lifted, your favorite picture will light up your profile again (yeah your cat is the most beautiful), (compatibility) stars will shine again and — most of all, you’ll finally be able to play your favorite free tournaments again, at any hour of the day.

 

 

 

What does it really mean?

No more “peak hours” limitation on free tournaments.

Free robot duplicates and other free robot tournaments are back!

Weekly Free Instant Tournament is back too!

Play the Free Super Sunday Daylong again.

Profile pictures are visible again.

Compatibility stars are back.

BBO is free and remains free. Thank you for your patience and have fun playing.

 

Any questions? Please send us a message to support@bridgebase.com

[barmar]

I asked the same on 1st August, don't recall receiving a reply.

Your calendar is running fast. 1 August is almost 3 weeks away.

[pescetom]

Your calendar is running fast. 1 August is almost 3 weeks away.

 

:) I edited the post to say July as intended.

But the calendar does run fast, there are people counting on my free tournaments in August and I don't know what to say.

[gentgiant]

I asked a direct question of BBO this weekend and received this answer:

 

"As of August 1st you will be able host 1 team match at the time, as any other

mature bbo username. Should you want continue with TD privileges, please

contact your national bridge federation (NBO) and express your interest in

running sanctioned games online. BBO cannot award masterpoints recognized in

your country unless the Federation makes an agreement with BBO first, BBO

already has agreements with several NBOs from UK."

 

So the EBU has effectively stymied my tournaments for friends where we are not interested in Masterpoints and where nobody pays anybody to play or pays me to TD.

 

The loss of ability to set two team matches running concurrently, also makes it trickier to run inter-club team matches. I've run one a week between various clubs and these have been very popular.

 

Sad, not to say, an infuriating day.

[Vampyr]

:) I edited the post to say July as intended.

But the calendar does run fast, there are people counting on my free tournaments in August and I don't know what to say.

 

Before the pandemic, did you run free tournaments in real bridge? Normally you have to pay for the venue.I’m sure that the cost is well under a dollar per player, which should not really cause A hardship to anyone.

[Vampyr]

I asked a direct question of BBO this weekend and received this answer:

 

"As of August 1st you will be able host 1 team match at the time, as any other

mature bbo username. Should you want continue with TD privileges, please

contact your national bridge federation (NBO) and express your interest in

running sanctioned games online. BBO cannot award masterpoints recognized in

your country unless the Federation makes an agreement with BBO first, BBO

already has agreements with several NBOs from UK."

 

So the EBU has effectively stymied my tournaments for friends where we are not interested in Masterpoints and where nobody pays anybody to play or pays me to TD.

 

The loss of ability to set two team matches running concurrently, also makes it trickier to run inter-club team matches. I've run one a week between various clubs and these have been very popular.

 

Sad, not to say, an infuriating day.

 

This is truly unfortunate. I can well imagine that you do not want the players to set up their own matches because of security issues, which BBO do not intend to eliminate. It might be time to start looking for another platform.

[pescetom]

Before the pandemic, did you run free tournaments in real bridge? Normally you have to pay for the venue.I’m sure that the cost is well under a dollar per player, which should not really cause A hardship to anyone.

 

My players (who are all members of my small "real bridge" club) would have no issue in paying a dollar to BBO, as you say they were used to paying for the venue (and I was used to being paid for my services as a director, come to that). It's not about money, it's about providing the kind of game they are used to and desire. My NBO decided not to enter an agreement with BBO so no help on that side, especially as they are now starting to play face to face again. If I were to stop organising tournaments here now then most of my club members would just go back to "real bridge" and abandon BBO. If it will be possible to continue as at present or under some simple alternative scheme then we would continue to hold some tournaments on BBO rather than at the club even if/when normal conditions return.

[game1980]

If I am not wrong

August 1 is 2 days later

what is the update?

Can we still run tournaments?

[Geoff103]

If I am not wrong

August 1 is 2 days later

what is the update?

Can we still run tournaments?

 

You are not wrong and BBO is being very coy about August 1 changes. I suspect we are about to lose TD rights in order to appease NBOs.

[m00036]

You are not wrong and BBO is being very coy about August 1 changes. I suspect we are about to lose TD rights in order to appease NBOs.

I very much doubt that is the case. BBO has been overwhelmed with NBO support and it's more likely that they are dealing with different NBO games and requests and haven't got around to arranging plans for BBO tournaments organised by other directors. I suspect the current situation will continue at least for another month or so (they haven't sent any official news out just yet and they risk losing a lot of their membership if they make a last minute decision to revoke director rights). They did say they would think about a subscription model so to revoke all director privileges in August and then try to bring directors back for a fee at a later date isn't a viable business or bridge model (since everyone will have left by then).

[m00036]

I very much doubt that is the case. BBO has been overwhelmed with NBO support and it's more likely that they are dealing with different NBO games and requests and haven't got around to arranging plans for BBO tournaments organised by other directors. I suspect the current situation will continue at least for another month or so (they haven't sent any official news out just yet and they risk losing a lot of their membership if they make a last minute decision to revoke director rights). They did say they would think about a subscription model so to revoke all director privileges in August and then try to bring directors back for a fee at a later date isn't a viable business or bridge model (since everyone will have left by then).

It's also not helpful to complain on the forum about changes to BBO procedures and fearing the worst. BBO are a company, and are also a well regarded company on the whole by the bridge community, and nothing could be worse for them at a time like this to lose their reputation such as by making last minute changes to their director terms. You would be well within your rights to complain to your heart's content if last minute changes are made on Saturday, but ultimately there's been no official news and I think we can all be hopeful that NBOs (and this forum page) have provided enough support for BBO to continue to support their free tournaments. I outlined above why it makes no economic/business sense anyway for BBO to revoke director rights for 2 days time, so I'm very prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to BBO here and thank them for not revoking free tournament rights during these tough times. Every little helps and it will give a massive boost to all the players on BBO to know that the bridge community is being supported by the companies, players and directors alike.

 

So please, if you're reading and contributing to this forum, make comments based on the facts and official correspondence as opposed to unfair rumours and assumptions. BBO admins do read these posts (and I hope any delays to procedural changes are because they are taking our views into account) and it's more likely that you will be prevented from running tournaments for complaining here than because of BBO making a last minute and detrimental (to themselves as well as others) change to their terms and conditions.

[Geoff103]

 

 

So please, if you're reading and contributing to this forum, make comments based on the facts and official correspondence as opposed to unfair rumours and assumptions. BBO admins do read these posts (and I hope any delays to procedural changes are because they are taking our views into account) and it's more likely that you will be prevented from running tournaments for complaining here than because of BBO making a last minute and detrimental (to themselves as well as others) change to their terms and conditions.

 

What makes you think I haven't been emailed by BBO? I have and the response was cagey. Fully supporting my original post.

 

If things are not changing, then why not just announce that?

[pgrice]

 

So please, if you're reading and contributing to this forum, make comments based on the facts and official correspondence as opposed to unfair rumours and assumptions. BBO admins do read these posts (and I hope any delays to procedural changes are because they are taking our views into account) and it's more likely that you will be prevented from running tournaments for complaining here than because of BBO making a last minute and detrimental (to themselves as well as others) change to their terms and conditions.

 

I would much prefer to comment on what BBO are going to do and not rumour ... but they haven't seen fit to let some of their user base (customers!) know what will happen in 2 days time what do you expect?

 

I fully appreciate that BBO isn't a charity and deserve to be rewarded for the service they provide. I sincerely hope the suggestion you make that users might be punished for complaining in this forum is not in their thinking. If it is, I may be playing my last game on BBO tonight.

 

Peter

[m00036]

I agree that it's unhelpful for BBO not to keep players informed, but my feeling at present is that it's more likely BBO haven't finalised the changes as yet, and their original statement said that solutions to meet players' needs will continue to be offered from August 1st. This would include free tournaments, whereas it wouldn't include the sudden revocation of all director privileges. Enough people have emailed BBO for them to know that the latter solution will be detrimental to their success and membership, especially given the rise of competitor options (some which have been introduced already and many that are still being developed).

 

I sincerely hope the suggestion you make that users might be punished for complaining in this forum is not in their thinking. If it is, I may be playing my last game on BBO tonight.

 

I was saying that it's more likely that a director would be suspended for disagreeing with BBO's approach on how it uses their platform (directors must be in good standing with BBO to retain privileges after all) than for BBO to lose a significant proportion of its membership in a day, and I'd like to think that both situations are incredibly remote (and obviously revoking director's privileges for forum comments sets a dangerous precedent). BBO's pricing and business structure will have to continue to evolve - virtual clubs are starting up but also stopping because the financial model offered by BBO isn't sustainable at a 60/40 (soon to be 50/50) split (one of my own virtual clubs included). Recognising that changes are coming, BBO simply provided room to potentially make changes from August (incremental, sudden or otherwise), but given that there is now just one working day left in the month, I suspect there will simply be a notification of planned incremental changes in the next few days as opposed to any immediate move. I hope for the sake of all those that have been longtime members (and indeed recent newcomers) of/to BBO, and for the bridge community at large, that I am not proved wrong this weekend. :)

[game1980]

Reply from BBO

 

New procedures for tournament creation rights are: Going forward, everyone will

have to pay for tournaments creation. So yes, your free TD rights will cease.

I think we should schedule one last one before your free TD rights cease.

[diana_eva]

BBO will not cease free tournament permissions on August 1st. We will cease them at some point, not very far away in the future, but not without some reasonable heads-up warning.

 

We have not finalized the procedures to help existing free tourney hosts organize their online activity going forward. I apologize for the less than perfect communication on this subject.

 

What we do know is the following:

 

Going forward, permission to create tournaments on the BBO platform will be a pay service.

 

NBOs get better terms and conditions than singular non-affiliated individuals and business. So if you're a club affiliated to an NBO that already has a virtual club system on BBO, it will be cheaper to enroll as a virtual club than continue as an autonomous entity.

 

There will be three types of payment models:

 

1. For small free tourneys limited to max 20 tables, one at a time (ie what most free tourney hosts have now) a small monthly fee, offered as a subscription service. This is the part that we're still working on, sorry.

For people who need more than 20 tables and/or more than one tourney at a time, they can

2. run pay tournaments with a BB$ entry fee, where players pay their own entry fees in BB$ and BBO gives the club their earnings at the end of each month (after taking a %)

3. run their tournaments free of charge on BBO, and pay a fix fee per table to BBO. This is convenient for clubs, pros and business who already have their own payment processing implemented, and have the ability to charge their players offline.

 

The monthly subscription is not available yet, we hope to finalize it soon. Once this is finalized we will proceed to announce all affected players and eventually stop the free tourney permissions for the people who are not in the categories of free hosts mentioned below.

 

The other two types of payment models are available (BB$ or fix table fee), and you can reach us at tournaments@bridgebase.com to express your preference over one or the other.

 

A few clarifications:

 

Long time online hosts who have been organizing free tourneys on BBO for years, and are not affiliated with live business, clubs, bridge orgs, etc. continue to have the ability to run free, unlimited games, just like they always had (thing of BBO Hornets, or bbo clubs like the IAC, Acol, etc. ) I'm surprised to see nobody mentioned this, but we have reached out to a few hundred long time hosts and users, since the end of June, and offered them a way to continue their activities as usual, free of charge. Maybe everyone thought this was secret :)

 

If you are doing junior training, bridge in schools, charity events or any bridge activity where commerce should not be involved (eg kids), you can contact us and we'll give you permission to do it for free. NBOs already have their own junior and training programs and special accounts with access to free unlimited games, so if you are doing it for NBO training purposes you can simply ask your NBO to give you access to their Youth / JR account, or have them set up some extra JR training accounts for you.

 

Bridge clubs, organizations, associations, pros, teachers, and entities that normally charge a fee to their players in order to let them play or organize a tournament for them, will be asked to enter a commercial agreement with BBO going forward, as their activities are of commercial nature.

[Vampyr]

Are the free tournaments which will still be allowed be open to everyone? It seems fair that they should be from the players’ point of view, rather than some people having access to free tournaments and some people not.

[diana_eva]

Are the free tournaments which will still be allowed be open to everyone? It seems fair that they should be from the players' point of view, rather than some people having access to free tournaments and some people not.

 

Yes, the vast majority, although there are some traditionally country-limited games as well, such as a series of Polish hosts, French hosts, etc. who have always offered Polish or French specific tournaments.

 

They would however not be limited to an include list of 20 people, but large, generally available free tournaments even if some filters can exists.

 

By the way there have been free unlimited tournaments all along, since our big "We're back!" announcement.

 

You can see them at any time if you go online. Everything that has more than 20 table now will continue to have it (assuming the hosts and groups who received these extra permissions continue to do the free volunteer work they have been doing, and not switch to doing business based on their unlimited free hosting rights)

[gentgiant]

Once the pandemic has waned and clubs go back to f2f, this income stream will shrink to a dribble.

 

And much goodwill lost.

[hrothgar]

BBO will not cease free tournament permissions on August 1st. We will cease them at some point, not very far away in the future, but not without some reasonable heads-up warning.

 

Bridgebase's new owners are killing the platform.

 

Speaking as a long time, and formerly enthusiastic user, I am very very glad that there are new offers on the horizon.

[coffee3]

To Diana_eva

 

Well, so BBO will become exactly the same as Funbridge - same owner, greedy commercial guy who is not a bridge player. I suspected these "changes". Once these new rules are implemented, with BBO as I know it since its creation is finished. Lots of people, including me, would prefer not to play at all rather than to pay for poor services. On top of that the owner, Olivie Comte breaks the Corporate Social Responsibility rules. Big deal. I don't care anymore about BBO. Whatever I had done as free, voluntary work, my own investments in a website and other relevant costs as Organiser of free tournaments. BBO hasn't paid a penny for my work and advertising. Was a fair deal. Soon this Value added by me and others will disappear.