How to find the slam here?

[Forehand94]

[hv=pc=n&s=skj6hkqt963dj982c&w=s32h75dkt65cq7653&n=saq5haj8daq73cj98&e=st9874h42d4cakt42&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=p1d1s2hp4hppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Pretty common situation but I don't know how to bid it without taking a big gamble. I am South and considered bidding 5♣ after the 4♥ to show a first round control but didn't feel I was strong enough as partner could easily have had 14-15. If my partner had bid 2♠ I would have taken that as asking for a spade stopper. And if she had bid 3♠ I would have taken that as a splinter. I'm thinking that me bidding 5♣ is the only way but that's hard to do. My hand is promising but it still has a lot of losers partner needs to take care of. Thanks for any advice.

[Stephen Tu]

North might throw in 2S before raising hearts.

[Cyberyeti]

If you play a weak NT you can do what we do, and play a GF 2N rebid then support hearts to show a better hand. N downvalues his ♠AQx as it's going to be led through with the spades bid over. 6♦ looks a better spot from N's PoV with the lead coming up to his hand and spade pitches on the hearts, but he never gives himself the chance to find it, for us, we bid 1♦-(1♠)-3♥ fit, and now N knows about the double fit.

 

Our actual auction:

 

1♦-(1♠)-3♥(5+♥/4+♦, F4♦)

3♠(cue, extras)-3N(♠ cue, we use NT to cipher for the most expensive suit to cue)

4♦-

 

now you know partner has a decent hand with no A or K in the club suit, so asking for aces and the ♦Q will get you to a choice of slams, but probably 6♦ if you're playing teams, N might correct to 6♥ particularly at pairs once S has shown a spade control.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I think your idea of bidding 5C is ok.

You know about the 9 card fit, spades should be placed well, you have a likely double fit in diamonds.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[smerriman]

North bidding the same way with a 14 count and an 18 count seems a bit too wide a range, so I agree with Stephen Tu about 2♠. You're right that a cue by opener might be looking for a stopper, and you can treat it as that initially, but that's not the only meaning; it could be any game forcing hand which doesn't know how to proceed yet. You find out which later.

[msjennifer]

Sir.

with 18 HCP,SEVEN (we count AQ +AQ combination as one extra control) controls and solid support (Partner willing to play in 2H with even xx with you and a normal 12-14 opening) bidding 4H is certainly an under bid. 2S and then 3H(GF) over the 2NT (SHOWING A spade guard )wii certainly encourage partner to make 4C cue (or if the partnership is perfect 5C) in a sensible auction leading to the slam at this particular situation posed by the OP. Thanks

[ericba2006]

[hv=pc=n&s=skj6hkqt963dj982c&w=s32h75dkt65cq7653&n=saq5haj8daq73cj98&e=st9874h42d4cakt42&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=p1d1s2hp4hppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Pretty common situation but I don't know how to bid it without taking a big gamble. I am South and considered bidding 5♣ after the 4♥ to show a first round control but didn't feel I was strong enough as partner could easily have had 14-15. If my partner had bid 2♠ I would have taken that as asking for a spade stopper. And if she had bid 3♠ I would have taken that as a splinter. I'm thinking that me bidding 5♣ is the only way but that's hard to do. My hand is promising but it still has a lot of losers partner needs to take care of. Thanks for any advice.

Bid 5♣. If your partner has too many losers or too many wasted points, she'll go back to 5♥, which is highly safe by your standards (since your 5♣ bid only shows a second-round stopper and you have a void, it's OK to raise your points a little.), If she doesn't, she will bid 5♦, asking you for more (if you had more then she'd go straight to slam).

[AL78]

Sir.

with 18 HCP,SEVEN controls and solid support (Partner willing to play in 2H with even xx with you and a normal 12-14 opening) bidding 4H is certainly an under bid. 2S and then 3H(GF) over the 2NT (SHOWING A spade guard )wii certainly encourage partner to make 4C cue (or if the partnership is perfect 5C) in a sensible auction leading to the slam at this particular situation posed by the OP. Thanks

 

That is a good auction. When South bids 2NT showing a spade stop, North knows the overcall was on garbage so he can count three spade tricks.

[fluff]

4♥ is really and overbid.

2♥ is forcing for only ONE round and promises only 11; so 3♥ was amply enough with this bad hand.

Then responder wld have room for 4c.

[msjennifer]

4♥ is really and overbid.

2♥ is forcing for only ONE round and promises only 11; so 3♥ was amply enough with this bad hand.

Then responder wld have room for 4c.

 

Sir I am sorry but these days 2H is NOT forcing for one round at all..2H may be on say x-K1098xx-Axx--xxx.or with reference to this deal the CA replacing DA.He shows a willingness to play in 2H opposite a bare minimum 1D Opening. If he does not bid 2H then what else ? PASS ? And it may go 1D-1S-P-3S-P-P on some other day.

[P_Marlowe]

4♥ is really and overbid.

2♥ is forcing for only ONE round and promises only 11; so 3♥ was amply enough with this bad hand.

Then responder wld have room for 4c.

If 3H is forcing for one round only, 3H can be passed, having a strong NT, facing 11+, I am going to

bid game.

[Khrystyna]

I find that such hands are difficult to know what to do when playing with pick-ups, non regular partners. Usually end up bidding slam and then deal with comments etc.

[Cyberyeti]

Sir I am sorry but these days 2H is NOT forcing for one round at all..2H may be on say x-K1098xx-Axx--xxx.or with reference to this deal the CA replacing DA.He shows a willingness to play in 2H opposite a bare minimum 1D Opening. If he does not bid 2H then what else ? PASS ? And it may go 1D-1S-P-3S-P-P on some other day.

 

Maybe for you, not for most, yes you can play NFBs but they're really not standard, X then hearts is normal with that.

[pigpenz]

Maybe for you, not for most, yes you can play NFBs but they're really not standard, X then hearts is normal with that.

OUCH I would always play as forcing

[Cyberyeti]

OUCH I would always play as forcing

 

I think most particularly here play 2♥ forcing and you double with 5+♥ and not enough for 2♥. Negative free bids does the reverse.

[rq401]

Support cues would make finding slam easer. If 2♠ showed forcing support you can start cue bidding controls: 3♣ over pass or double-3♦-3♠ so partner knows of 2nd spade control-4♠-5♣-6♥.

 

As for 2♠ asking for a stopper, I think most would agree KJx over the suit bidder is usually adequate for a stopper. But what's your answer to show stopper: 3♠, 3NT or 4♥? You still don't know about heart support.

 

Bob

[Forehand94]

Support cues would make finding slam easer. If 2♠ showed forcing support you can start cue bidding controls: 3♣ over pass or double-3♦-3♠ so partner knows of 2nd spade control-4♠-5♣-6♥.

 

As for 2♠ asking for a stopper, I think most would agree KJx over the suit bidder is usually adequate for a stopper. But what's your answer to show stopper: 3♠, 3NT or 4♥? You still don't know about heart support.

 

Bob

 

Yes, it would have helped. I guess it depends on if you encounter the stopper problem or slam problem more often. Although, as people have said above, you can use a western cue and then later in the auction show you have a slam try.

 

Had partner used a western cue, I would have responded 4♥ as I want to be in hearts even with spades stopped and don't need a good fit for that to be a good contract. With a more notrumpy hand but the same extra values I would bid 3NT. With minimum values 2NT or 3♥. So partner should get all the information she needs.

[dsLawsd]

Great hand for partnership discussion as 3♥might be a problem when no good fit (and often is invitation with 6 hearts) and you really want to be in some game. 2♥ evokes that famous remark from Roth (If I can just get by this round...) and yet it seems right here as partner will bid on with extras.

 

As for slam the best way to make it would be: just bid 6 over 4.

Surely correct at rubber bridge and it leaves the opening leader in the dark.

 

Naturally a 5♣ cue seems good as an alternate try. But is it an ace or shortness.

 

Thanks much for this problem good sir!

[lflayton]

Could try 4NT and response could be 6 Hearts says uneven number of key cards and a void. See Bridge Webs 1430 RKC with a void

[VJ]

Nobody for opening 1N? According to my evaluation rules (see my book "SAYC: Poisons & antidotes"), North's hand belongs to the 15-17 range. Then a DONT overcall of 2♣ would be followed by a (say) Lebensohn of 3♥, raise to 4♣, a Comfortable BW (see my book) at 4♠ or the usual RKCBW at 4N, a response of 6♣ and a landing at 6♥.

 

IT all seems easier with better tools, but here you also need the Defense to show their ♣ fit :)

[DBarbour]

At least one of the older masters (Marshall Miles) recommends if you have about an A over what you have already shown, you should make a slam try, and if you partner has a K over what they have already shown they should accept. Since responder could have bid 2 H without the club void, i.e. with 2 small, the void control in clubs seems huge to me (and as someone else mentioned, the spades are well placed). I would have no problems bidding 5C.

 

Also I can't imagine a world where 2H is not forcing.

[Stephen Tu]

The club void may not be that huge. All auctions are tough because there's no clear way for South to show it low enough. Posters should think about how they would stay out of slam if North's ace of hearts were the ace of clubs instead (down to ~28%), or ace of diamonds were ace of clubs where you could go down in 5.

[bluenikki]

4♥ is really and overbid.

2♥ is forcing for only ONE round and promises only 11; so 3♥ was amply enough with this bad hand.

Then responder wld have room for 4c.

 

You really believe 3♥ is forcing?????

[AL78]

Also I can't imagine a world where 2H is not forcing.

 

One of my now deceased bridge partners used to play disturbed bids weak after an overcall, with a jump showing invitational values and a long suit, double would be used to show a game going hand (IIRC). I didn't care for it very much.

[AL78]

The club void may not be that huge. All auctions are tough because there's no clear way for South to show it low enough. Posters should think about how they would stay out of slam if North's ace of hearts were the ace of clubs instead (down to ~28%), or ace of diamonds were ace of clubs where you could go down in 5.

 

This is a good point. The slam is good because of a combination of a double fit and all the HCP save the CJ are working to their full potential. Is it possible to diagnose that in the auction in a way to be able to bail out into game if the hands match less favourably?