HeartA Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 With ♠QJT8x, ♥AQx, ♦KTx, ♣AK. Would you open 1S or 2NT (20-21). What if ♦T was replaced my ♦J (if you think the real hand can not upgrade to 20 hcp)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 With the DJ, I would bid 2NT. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Yes, this hand is worth at least 20 hcp, so 2NT is fine with me. ♠10 in a 5-card suit and ♦10 are plenty to upgrade the hand. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Very close, can live with either. P will respond with any values. In any case if this decision decides match it will give me a chance to plug Mexican 2D toy in bar later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 guess i'd open it 1S... imo it's not a particularly good 19, but 2nt could certainly work out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 guess i'd open it 1S... imo it's not a particularly good 19, but 2nt could certainly work out Now we are back to judgement again. If this is not a particularly good 19 count, I don't know what is. KQA873QJ72AK5 This is not a particularly good 19 count. The hand HeartA presents is. ♠10 makes it a great 19 count even. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 well i will not back my judgment vs. yours for even penny a point.. i just don't like the hand for 2nt, that's all.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Hi, I never upgrade or downgrade, so with your original hand I would open 1S. With your changed hand, I still would open 1S, because Iexpect partner to bid with hands containing nice 5HCP. Addionally I play, that the forcing NT may contain 4-7HCP with 3 card support, so the pressure to open this hand with2NT is not so high. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Depends on the scoring for me. In imps I'd rather bid 2NT, but in MP's I'll take the slow way and start with 1♠, because I don't like the hand that much (I know it has some good values, but it's all forks and 2 possible ♠ losers before you can cash in)... With ♦J I always open 2NT, cause I don't see any reason to downgrade the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Yes, this hand is worth at least 20 hcp, so 2NT is fine with me. ♠10 in a 5-card suit and ♦10 are plenty to upgrade the hand. Roland Agree and I open 2NT too (with ♦10 or ♦J) Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 QJT8x, AQx, KTx, AK K4, 76, A754, 86532 Who do you want to declare 3NT? It takes one defender to hold A9xxx in spades to present any danger if played by North, so let's assume that the contract is cold on any lead. If played by South, however, it takes some good fortune (guessing perhaps) to make it on a heart lead. Maybe it's just unmakeable no matter what you do. Now, where will the 1♠ openers end up? Right, in 3NT played by South. You can obviously forget all about making it when hearts are: J10x opposite K9xxx with RHO (East) holding ♠A. It's not a crime trying to foresee what may happen later in the auction, apart from the fact that the North hand is clearly worth a 2NT opening. Hand evaluation isn't easy, but it's wrong to walk around with blinders, telling yourself that I have learned to open 2NT only if I have 20-21 or 20-22 hcp. Let's go to the extreme and pass the following hand because it only has 10 hcp: AKQJ1098765432------ The other three at the table also have a 10 count, so it's a passout. You have your defence ready of course when you go to score up and lose 19 IMPs on the hand. "Sorry team mates, but there was no way I could open the hand. I don't have enough high cards". ;) Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reisig Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 2NT - Want reasons? I tend to look at many things when evaluating a hand..other than 4-3-2-1.My hand is always better with a 5 card suit (not xxxxx)And always worse with 4-3-3-3NT opening bids tends to make partner's (and my) life easier for the rest of the bidding.I look for non-working secondary honors (Jxx Qx) - I know they MAY help.Is a suit headed by QJ10xx the same as QJ742? Not to me! Tens in longer suits that support higher honors must count for something.One last thought - I'll get to play the hand! Sometimes - a key factor:)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 Let's go to the extreme and pass the following hand because it only has 10 hcp: AKQJ1098765432 You cannot go to that extreme whenn you have are talking about balanced hands. I dunno if its worth opening 2NT or not, aplying your judgement is nice, but with balanced hands just opening what the system tells you to saves some energy for complicated hands ;). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 2NT is a no brainer with or without the J of D. I want the lead coming into this hand.1S presents my side at the disadvantage of partner getting the lead through my positional cards. I also expect the other team to open this 2NT, who am I to go against the grain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifee Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 ♠QJT8x, ♥AQx, ♦KTx, ♣AK 2NT 5 card suit headed by QJT +no wasted quacks & good tenace +good middlin cards + I add 1/2 point or so for most of these positive features when evaluating a hand for NT opening :) and of course deduct points for negative features B) only negative in this hand is tight ♣AK. Always prefer to have AK in long suits :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 30, 2005 Report Share Posted May 30, 2005 just for the hell of it, and for whatever it's worth, i ran the hand thru the k~r thingy... it came up as worth 18.50... as i said, that's only for whatever it's worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 2N. nice spade ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 I think there is no doubt that this hand is fully worth 20-21, so would qualify for 2N. The real question to me is: what hands might partner pass that would produce game? I hold a 5-loser hand, so partner only needs something like Kxxx, xx, xxxx, xxx for a spade game to have a reasonable chance - but with club leads, 9 tricks would be hard to come by in NT. More than anything, this hand may get down to style. If playing forcing NT and pard is supposed to keep the bidding alive with Kxxx, xx, xxx, xxx, then I prefer 1S, looking for the most likely game. If pard would pass this hand, then I open 2NT, hoping pard has this passable hand: Kx, xxxx, Qxx, xxxx. As far a slam goes, I don't think it matters much which you open - the critical difference seems to be between game/partscore. Winstonm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Always 2N. I dont mind pd xfer to 3H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 If you have 20-21 balanced with a 5 card major it is not style whether or not you open 2N. You simply have to since theres no other sequence that can show 20-21 balanced. This is not the same as a 15-17 with a 5 card major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted May 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Thanks for all the responses. I opened 2NT at the table, which surprised my pd. I have been an advocator of opening NT with 5-card major. I even "invented" it 20 years ago before I got any related books/articles. While my pd is totally against it. We talked about this issue (merely 1NT) a few times but no agreement was reached. This was the first time he saw me to open 2NT with 5-card major, and he asked me in a very surprised tone "was this (opening 2NT with 5-card major) your invention, too?". I told him that most experts would open 2NT with my hand and I don't need to invent it anymore. The reason to post this hand is to open his eyes about 2NT (and 1NT) opening with 5-card major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 I invented the wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 i don't think anyone posting has any objections at all to opening 2nt w/ a 5 cd M... for me it all revolved around what the bid shows re: strength Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 If you have 20-21 balanced with a 5 card major it is not style whether or not you open 2N. You simply have to since theres no other sequence that can show 20-21 balanced. This is not the same as a 15-17 with a 5 card major. I'm certainly not going to argue with you, Justin, as you have been exposed to bridge at the top levels for quite a while now. To clarify my position, though, it is a matter of style whether one usually takes the slight underbid in close situations, regardless of system constraints. Although the hand is question certainly qualifies for 2N, as with most NT hands it lacks in trick-taking potential (the trick taking potential of the decent spade suit is what makes this hand worth 2N, as we all know.) So when I say this choice is a matter of style, I agree completely that if you open 1S you can no longer "catch up" in some auctions. The "style" comes in as to whether you open a relatively safe 1S (safe in the sense of not going set, not in missing game) and later treat this hand as 18/19 balanced, or whether you take the more aggressive action and open 2NT, which will work out best in the long run for game bidding but can also lead to more spectacular minuses. As "conservative" does not seem to be in the bridge lexicon these days, I admit that at the table I would open 2N and hope for the best. ;) WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 No I didn't mean on this hand since its only technically 19. I meant in general with 20-21. There is just a common misconception that 20-21 wiht a 5 card major is analogous to 15-17 with a 5 card major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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