Jump in diamonds

[shyams]

This happened with me as South at one of the tournaments:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sj762hkqdakj872c9&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1c1d1s(4%2B%20!S%20cards)2c(4%2B%20!D%2C%20good%20raise)d(3-card%20!S%20support)2d2s4d(4%2B%20!D%2C%2011%2B%20%20 total points)p]133|200[/hv]

 

1. Should I bid game? Would the choice be different for IMPs/MPs?

 

2. Separately, should I have bid differently at my second turn? Was 2♦ an acceptable choice of bid?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

4D is forcing, hence pass is out.

good raise means inv.+ or mixed raise+?

If inv.+, 2D is not enough.

[Cyberyeti]

I was bidding whichever of 2♠ or 3♦ shows this hand rather than 2♦, as little as x, Axx, Qxxx, xxxxx is sufficient for game, although as it happens allowing W to presumably show a 5th spade confirms partner's singleton.

[nekthen]

I was more wondering if we should go via 4N to check on 6

[Cyberyeti]

I was more wondering if we should go via 4N to check on 6

 

For god's sake use 4♥ to ask aces if 4♦ was not minorwood in the first place (which I suspect might be a decent use)

[nudnikbp]

Your hand is strong for 2D, so yes, continue to game.

[miamijd]

I would have bid 2S or 3D, rather than 2D. You have a hand that is much better than minimum for your 1D overcall. 6/4, great diamonds, a stiff in opener's strong suit. When the opponents have bid two suits, a cue-bid of one suit tends to show, rather than ask for, a stop. Since you have sort of a stop in spades, you could bid 2S, so that if partner has a good stop in clubs, you could play 3NT. Or you could jump to 3D if you are afraid that East could lead a spade to West, who would then put a club through your partner's stop.

 

On this bidding, yes, I would try 5D. What do you think partner has for his bidding? East has shown long, strong clubs. West has shown five spades, East three, and you have four. I would wager partner has the Ah, the Qd, a stiff spade, and probably one club honor (that you don't need). In that case, 5D will roll.

 

Cheers,

Mike

[dsLawsd]

This happened with me as South at one of the tournaments:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sj762hkqdakj872c9&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1c1d1s(4%2B%20!S%20cards)2c(4%2B%20!D%2C%20good%20raise)d(3-card%20!S%20support)2d2s4d(4%2B%20!D%2C%2011%2B%20%20 total points)p]133|200[/hv]

 

1. Should I bid game? Would the choice be different for IMPs/MPs?

 

2. Separately, should I have bid differently at my second turn? Was 2♦ an acceptable choice of bid?

 

I played this hand yesterday, so hard to answer. With the crazy robot I always end up guessing wrong! With partner likely to have a singleton spade it looks like a crossruff but a trump lead likely- so what is the perfect minimum that is held? I agree with another that 2♦ is an underbid (but since GIB adds too many points for shortness who knows?) My real life partnerships would probably bid 2♣ and over my 3♦ they would bid 5 with the correct hand.

[bluenikki]

Hi,

 

4D is forcing, hence pass is out.

good raise means inv.+ or mixed raise+?

If inv.+, 2D is not enough.

 

would you expect a stranger to take 4♦ as forcing? On what general principle?

[bluenikki]

I was more wondering if we should go via 4N to check on 6

 

How can you assume AK of ♠ won't cash?

[bluenikki]

For god's sake use 4♥ to ask aces if 4♦ was not minorwood in the first place (which I suspect might be a decent use)

 

How can you assume AK of ♠ won't cash?

[Cyberyeti]

How can you assume AK of ♠ won't cash?

 

I have 4 spades the opps have 3 and at least 5 (you don't normally bid 2♠ opposite 3 with only 4)

[miamijd]

How can you assume AK of ♠ won't cash?

 

West bid 1S, showing four or more. East made a support double, showing exactly three. Over your 2D call, West freely bid 2S. He might bid 2S with only four if you pass and he is forced to bid something. But once you bid, he is off the hook. If he has only four spades and a minimum hand, why wouldn't he pass? So he has at least five, which leaves your partner with at most one.

 

There is another way to look at it, too. What does your partner have for his bidding, which showed 10+ in support of diamonds? He has at most the AJh and the Qd in the reds. That's seven. East has bid clubs twice, so it's unlikely he has much there. What else could he have for his bid? A stiff spade -- ah, there's the ticket!

 

Cheers,

Mike

[sfi]

would you expect a stranger to take 4♦ as forcing? On what general principle?

Yes. North has already shown an invitational or better hand in support of diamonds. Now they've jumped to 4D rather than bidding 3D, so surely it's better than invitational.

 

Given my 2D bid last round, the least I can do is cue 4H. If partner bids 4S I'll ask for keycards.

[helene_t]

2♦ was maybe an underbid so we need to do something. We have good trumps, and all we needs from p is one keycards for 5♦, or two for 6♦. If he has a void in spades, 5♦ makes even if he has a yarb.

 

I would ask for keycards. Even if 4♦ was meant as nonforcing (which I think it should be but YMMV) it can do no harm. If he has zero keycards and no spade void bad luck, but that's unlikely, and we get to 5♦ anyway if I don't pass now, which I obviously don't.

[bluenikki]

Yes. North has already shown an invitational or better hand in support of diamonds. Now they've jumped to 4D rather than bidding 3D, so surely it's better than invitational.

 

Given my 2D bid last round, the least I can do is cue 4H. If partner bids 4S I'll ask for keycards.

 

Better than invitational is *not* the same as forcing.

 

"bid on if you are max" and "bid on unless you are bare min".are both invitational, but way different.

[bluenikki]

I have 4 spades the opps have 3 and at least 5 (you don't normally bid 2♠ opposite 3 with only 4)

 

Note that word "normally." You are banking 10 imps on it.

[bluenikki]

West bid 1S, showing four or more. East made a support double, showing exactly three. Over your 2D call, West freely bid 2S. He might bid 2S with only four if you pass and he is forced to bid something. But once you bid, he is off the hook. If he has only four spades and a minimum hand, why wouldn't he pass? So he has at least five, which leaves your partner with at most one.

 

There is another way to look at it, too. What does your partner have for his bidding, which showed 10+ in support of diamonds? He has at most the AJh and the Qd in the reds. That's seven. East has bid clubs twice, so it's unlikely he has much there. What else could he have for his bid? A stiff spade -- ah, there's the ticket!

 

Cheers,

Mike

 

North had a chance to bid 3♠ over 1♠ but didn't. North also had the chance to bid 3♠ at 2nd turn but didn't.

 

Two chances to show ♠ control but refused.

 

But you are willing to hazard 10 imps on your sense of the *opponents'* bidding. They are not there to help you.

[sfi]

Better than invitational is *not* the same as forcing.

 

"bid on if you are max" and "bid on unless you are bare min".are both invitational, but way different.

I'm not sure that's a useful distinction to have here when you have to give up a way to force with a hand that's not interested in 3NT. To repeat my answer to your earlier question: Yes, I would expect a stranger to take 4D as forcing for the reasons I gave.

[Cyberyeti]

Note that word "normally." You are banking 10 imps on it.

 

Maybe, maybe not, if partner doesn't have a stiff spade he may well have the K or the two other aces, but I think it's incredibly unlikely he has more than one. And no I'm not banking 10 IMPs on it -1 NV vs +130 is 5 IMPs.

[shyams]

This is one more hand that proves to me that my bidding judgement needs a significant upgrade.

 

I agonised long over my decision whether to bid game at all. I think I did bid game because it was IMPs; I'm not sure I would have taken the leap at MPs. If I recall, I did not realise the near-certainty that partner had 0 or 1 spade cards. My mind kept worrying about two spade and one club losers.

 

North's hand was something like ♠x ♥Axxxx ♦xxxx ♣Kxx (it's possible North had ♥J) and the play of the hand took far lesser time than my final bid took for me.

[bluenikki]

This is one more hand that proves to me that my bidding judgement needs a significant upgrade.

 

I agonised long over my decision whether to bid game at all. I think I did bid game because it was IMPs; I'm not sure I would have taken the leap at MPs. If I recall, I did not realise the near-certainty that partner had 0 or 1 spade cards. My mind kept worrying about two spade and one club losers.

 

North's hand was something like ♠x ♥Axxxx ♦xxxx ♣Kxx (it's possible North had ♥J) and the play of the hand took far lesser time than my final bid took for me.

 

4 small ♦ is a joke. The jump is supposed to reassure opener about the suit's playability.

[bluenikki]

Maybe, maybe not, if partner doesn't have a stiff spade he may well have the K or the two other aces, but I think it's incredibly unlikely he has more than one. And no I'm not banking 10 IMPs on it -1 NV vs +130 is 5 IMPs.

 

You referred to ace-asking. The 10 imps was the bing-bang set of 6♦.

[bluenikki]

I'm not sure that's a useful distinction to have here when you have to give up a way to force with a hand that's not interested in 3NT. To repeat my answer to your earlier question: Yes, I would expect a stranger to take 4D as forcing for the reasons I gave.

 

3♠ or 4♣ are available as cheaper, unambiguous forces.

[NoelParker]

would you expect a stranger to take 4♦ as forcing? On what general principle?

i think they mean closeout; not forcing as in must bid. If responder thought they should be in 5D s/he would put them there.