Asking subs to leave when originals return

[Kleopatra0]

Hi,

A TD invites a pair of substitutes at a half table in a 'pairs tournament' because the original pair was disconnected, but then joined the tournament as substitutes following the TD's advice. Is it bad manners if you ask nicely the subs to leave and they agree to do that?

Many thanks.

[gordontd]

Hi,

A TD invites a pair of substitutes at a half table in a 'pairs tournament' because the original pair was disconnected, but then joined the tournament as substitutes following the TD's advice. Is it bad manners if you ask nicely the subs to leave and they agree to do that?

Many thanks.

I always tell them when they substitute if I think the original players might come back and be re-seated.

[pescetom]

I always tell them when they substitute if I think the original players might come back and be re-seated.

 

 

I have sometimes told them that but adding the clause if the original player comes back in the next few minutes.

I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving them under threat of replacement for much longer than that, even if they accepted it.

[barmar]

It's pretty normal to put the original players back if they return. In ACBL tourneys it's done automatically.

[Kleopatra0]

Many thanks, it did help.

[pescetom]

It's pretty normal to put the original players back if they return. In ACBL tourneys it's done automatically.

 

No wonder so many of our substitutes seem to feel they have a right to abandon a tournament when they feel like it :(

I would never do this except to a robot (if only I could have a robot).

[Vampyr]

No wonder so many of our substitutes seem to feel they have a right to abandon a tournament when they feel like it :(

I would never do this except to a robot (if only I could have a robot).

 

As far as I am aware, substitutes do not pay. Would you really favour them over a pair that paid an entry fee?

[pescetom]

As far as I am aware, substitutes do not pay. Would you really favour them over a pair that paid an entry fee?

 

Yes, I would not be happy to throw out a substitute without prior agreement that it might happen.

And as a substitute I would not give such prior agreement unless I was very bored (or out to make trouble).

These are people, not robots.

[pilowsky]

I used the position of substitute in order to increase my TCR so that I could gain experience and learn about tournaments. Otherwise I would not be allowed into tournaments at all. "Throw" is charming language though, remind me not to be a guest at your house . As any sociologist will tell you the point of a social contract is that both parties gain something in roughly equal measure. Even substitutes.

[Vampyr]

Yes, I would not be happy to throw out a substitute without prior agreement that it might happen.

And as a substitute I would not give such prior agreement unless I was very bored (or out to make trouble).

These are people, not robots.

 

That is fine I guess, so long as you arrange a refund for the people who lost their connection.

[barmar]

I've removed the last few posts here because they had nothing to do with BBO tournaments and were inflamatory.

[PaulJHad]

As a "serial Substitute", I offer a couple of observations and opinions.

 

The negative aspects:

1) You may well be removed in order to make way for a previous player to return

2) You might find yourself frustrated as you feel your random partner is perhaps not up to your own standard, or worse you get a difficult partner who is rude, insulting bossy etc.

 

The positive:

1)You get to enjoy the benefits of the game,

2)You pay nothing

3)You may acquire a little status in form of few Master points.

4)You get to "meet" nice people, especially partners who you might join again at a later date.

 

Some opinions:

I think it is a privilege to be invited into a game as a substitute, the positive aspects far outweigh the downsides.

If i am invited partway through a game I actually EXPECT to be replaced... No problem as far as I'm concerned.. In fact in those situations I inform the TD that I'll stay as long as is required. (After all Someone payed, I didn't. He/she is surely entitled to return.)

When saddled with a difficult partner I feel one has a duty to the TD who kindly invited you to remain at your post, difficult as it may be. Of course you can always make the TD aware of bad behavior by a partner (which I'm sure he would appreciate as he can choose to blacklist any offender.)

 

An Idea:

The idea of TD's rating Subs has probably been broached before. However I do think that a simple 1-5 rating, shared to all TD's under a loose title of "Would you use this Substitute again" would weed out the less desirable or unreliable subs, and elevate others who treat the invitation respectfully.

[pescetom]

As a "serial Substitute", I offer a couple of observations and opinions.

 

The negative aspects:

1) You may well be removed in order to make way for a previous player to return

2) You might find yourself frustrated as you feel your random partner is perhaps not up to your own standard, or worse you get a difficult partner who is rude, insulting bossy etc.

 

The positive:

1)You get to enjoy the benefits of the game,

2)You pay nothing

3)You may acquire a little status in form of few Master points.

4)You get to "meet" nice people, especially partners who you might join again at a later date.

 

Some opinions:

I think it is a privilege to be invited into a game as a substitute, the positive aspects far outweigh the downsides.

If i am invited partway through a game I actually EXPECT to be replaced... No problem as far as I'm concerned.. In fact in those situations I inform the TD that I'll stay as long as is required. (After all Someone payed, I didn't. He/she is surely entitled to return.)

When saddled with a difficult partner I feel one has a duty to the TD who kindly invited you to remain at your post, difficult as it may be. Of course you can always make the TD aware of bad behavior by a partner (which I'm sure he would appreciate as he can choose to blacklist any offender.)

 

If only all subs were like you. Unfortunately they aren't, but fortunately this is (for some of us at least) a problem of the past, as we can now put in a robot instead (albeit only manually).

[m00036]

As a "serial Substitute", I offer a couple of observations and opinions.

 

The negative aspects:

1) You may well be removed in order to make way for a previous player to return

2) You might find yourself frustrated as you feel your random partner is perhaps not up to your own standard, or worse you get a difficult partner who is rude, insulting bossy etc.

 

The positive:

1)You get to enjoy the benefits of the game,

2)You pay nothing

3)You may acquire a little status in form of few Master points.

4)You get to "meet" nice people, especially partners who you might join again at a later date.

 

Some opinions:

I think it is a privilege to be invited into a game as a substitute, the positive aspects far outweigh the downsides.

If i am invited partway through a game I actually EXPECT to be replaced... No problem as far as I'm concerned.. In fact in those situations I inform the TD that I'll stay as long as is required. (After all Someone payed, I didn't. He/she is surely entitled to return.)

When saddled with a difficult partner I feel one has a duty to the TD who kindly invited you to remain at your post, difficult as it may be. Of course you can always make the TD aware of bad behavior by a partner (which I'm sure he would appreciate as he can choose to blacklist any offender.)

 

An Idea:

The idea of TD's rating Subs has probably been broached before. However I do think that a simple 1-5 rating, shared to all TD's under a loose title of "Would you use this Substitute again" would weed out the less desirable or unreliable subs, and elevate others who treat the invitation respectfully.

A simple 1-5 rating would be great. Human subs are far more enjoyable to play against than robots if they are pleasant and friendly like you, but equally robots are far better in comparison to a rude sub who may leave early or make horrible comments at the table. Assuming the TD ratings are honest and reliable, it would be a great feature; Not everyone plays 2/1 and not everyone wants to play against robots anyway.

[pilartarra]

It's pretty normal to put the original players back if they return. In ACBL tourneys it's done automatically.

 

hi, that is what I would like, to have the original players seated automatically when they return. Is there an option to set-up that when the tournament is created? thanks

[diana_eva]

hi, that is what I would like, to have the original players seated automatically when they return. Is there an option to set-up that when the tournament is created? thanks

 

It is automatic in pay tourneys. It is not automatic in free ones.

[pilartarra]

It is automatic in pay tourneys. It is not automatic in free ones.

 

thanks Diana. I hope it could be added as an option for free tournaments then. :-)

[m00036]

thanks Diana. I hope it could be added as an option for free tournaments then. :-)

This isn't a perfect approach though; I had a sub player last week who played 11 boards before bidding 7NTxx on the 12th. They disconnected and I put a robot in. I then find that BBO had tried to automatically reseat them 4 boards later when they came online so I had to kick them out again... I'm not sure there's a better solution but it's not always perfect (admittedly the FYI reseat instruction is very useful, thanks for that!).

[Vampyr]

This isn't a perfect approach though; I had a sub player last week who played 11 boards before bidding 7NTxx on the 12th. They disconnected and I put a robot in. I then find that BBO had tried to automatically reseat them 4 boards later when they came online so I had to kick them out again... I'm not sure there's a better solution but it's not always perfect (admittedly the FYI reseat instruction is very useful, thanks for that!).

 

Someone else recently mentioned a player bidding 7NTxx. Is this a thing? Trying to throw a board to your friends or something?

[sfi]

Someone else recently mentioned a player bidding 7NTxx. Is this a thing? Trying to throw a board to your friends or something?

It seems to be a standard dummy spit when someone isn't happy about something on the previous hand. Because some people never made it past the emotional age of 10 (apologies to anyone who actually is 10).

 

If you were actually trying to throw a board to friends you could be much more subtle about it.

[sfi]

This isn't a perfect approach though; I had a sub player last week who played 11 boards before bidding 7NTxx on the 12th. They disconnected and I put a robot in. I then find that BBO had tried to automatically reseat them 4 boards later when they came online so I had to kick them out again... I'm not sure there's a better solution but it's not always perfect (admittedly the FYI reseat instruction is very useful, thanks for that!).

 

I believe you can stop this from happening by going to the option to sub a player. Enter the new player's name on both fields (player being subbed and the substitute player). Diana_eva said this should stop the original player from being automatically reseated.

[diana_eva]

I believe you can stop this from happening by going to the option to sub a player. Enter the new player's name on both fields (player being subbed and the substitute player). Diana_eva said this should stop the original player from being automatically reseated.

 

Correct. You can permanently assign a player to the seat by subbing them in twice: Once to replace another player, and the second time to sub with self. A message saying "Player blah permanently assigned to seat" will also be sent via TD call, to let you know the permanent substitution was successful.

[diana_eva]

thanks Diana. I hope it could be added as an option for free tournaments then. :-)

 

The decision to not reseat players automatically in free games was intentional, as the free games are a lot more random in nature, and original player has not paid anything for that seat.

 

They can always be reseated by hand upon request but it's very frequent that they do not wish to come back.

[pilartarra]

The decision to not reseat players automatically in free games was intentional, as the free games are a lot more random in nature, and original player has not paid anything for that seat.

 

They can always be reseated by hand upon request but it's very frequent that they do not wish to come back.

 

thanks Diana :-)

We play within our club members and sometimes subs come in when a player has connection issues. But then they want to be reseated once their connection is restored. So I was thinking that an automatic reseat option can be available, and known by subs also, of course, as part of the tournament characteristics

[Vampyr]

It seems to be a standard dummy spit when someone isn't happy about something on the previous hand. Because some people never made it past the emotional age of 10 (apologies to anyone who actually is 10).

 

If you were actually trying to throw a board to friends you could be much more subtle about it.

 

Another reason not to play with strangers. I guess there I should no reason to now, since you can use a robot as a substitute.