Rejected claim time allocation

[nige1]

On BBO, when defenders reject declarer's claim, declarer plays on single-dummy. Defenders play on double-dummy until satisfied. Normally this simple protocol works well, speeding up the game. Drawbacks are:

 

• Some declarers make spurious claims, hoping for a careless concession, or as a "fishing expedition".
• Some defenders reject valid claims, hoping for a misclick.

 

In timed events, this causes problems for one side or the other. IMO,

 

 

• If declarer's claim succeeds, then the additional time he uses, playing the hand out, shouldn't count against him, when assessing time-penalties.
• If declarer's claim fails, then the additional time taken by defenders, playing the hand out, shouldn't count against them.
• Whatever the form of competition, BBO should keep a count of spurious claims and rejections. These statistics could used as additional criteria for tournament entry.

[Povratnik]

I voted for all three, but don't really like the formulation If declarer's claim succeeds. If declarer's claim had been flawless in the first place - time shouldn't count against him, whether the claim succeeded or not. If, however, declarer's claim had been spurious/speculative/phishing - time should count against him, whether the claim succeeded or not.

 

(Maybe I should add "IMHO", but forgot ;))

[nige1]

I voted for all three, but don't really like the formulation If declarer's claim succeeds. If declarer's claim had been flawless in the first place - time shouldn't count against him, whether the claim succeeded or not. If, however, declarer's claim had been spurious/speculative/phishing - time should count against him, whether the claim succeeded or not.(Maybe I should add "IMHO", but forgot )

Thank you, Povratnik. Povratnik makes a valid theoretical point but his suggestion would usually need a director ruling. IMO, a benefit of online claim protocol, however crude, is that it rarely involves director judgement.

[barmar]

BBO doesn't have "time penalties", so what are you referring to?

 

Are you talking about Express tournaments?

[johnu]

BBO doesn't have "time penalties", so what are you referring to?

 

Are you talking about Express tournaments?

Maybe tournament rounds where a board(s) can't be played because the round is called and the director assigns average +- scores.

[pescetom]

Maybe tournament rounds where a board(s) can't be played because the round is called and the director assigns average +- scores.

 

I too voted on principle for all three, but was as puzzled as others.

I think it only affects tournament rounds when they are clocked, which is comparatively rare in pairs tournaments.

In those cases as Director I assign scores based upon the probable outcome and do not leave the default ave/ave score.

It's tough even for a human Director to spot a spurious claim or rejection with the BBO mechanism that does not require or incentivate explanation.

And if a rule does leave unnecessary space for unethical behaviour then I would rather change the rule than monitor presumed deviations.

[barmar]

Maybe tournament rounds where a board(s) can't be played because the round is called and the director assigns average +- scores.

The TD usually assigns a real result when this happens. If the claim was good, I'd expect them to assign the result that was claimed.

 

if they're not sure, they can use robot assistance.

[nige1]

BBO doesn't have "time penalties", so what are you referring to? Are you talking about Express tournaments?

A couple of examples ...

• In some tournaments, robots replace players who exceed time-limits.
• In most tournaments, a round can finish, before a table has played all its boards.

[barmar]

A couple of examples ...

• In some tournaments, robots replace players who exceed time-limits.
• In most tournaments, a round can finish, before a table has played all its boards.

The first is Express tournaments, which I mentioned.

 

The second is only a concern if you claim in the last few seconds of the round. As I said, the TD will adjust and you should get what you claimed if it was valid.

[nige1]

The first is Express tournaments, which I mentioned.The second is only a concern if you claim in the last few seconds of the round. As I said, the TD will adjust and you should get what you claimed if it was valid.

What if, on earlier boards ...

• Defenders reject a valid claim and declarer plays on. Should declarer always call the director, instead?
• Declarer claims incorrectly, and defenders play on. Should defenders always call the director, instead of playing on?

BBO claim protocol is simple, objective, fair, and encourages claims. IMO, another benefit is that director calls can be reduced, saving time and hassle.

[johnu]

The TD usually assigns a real result when this happens. If the claim was good, I'd expect them to assign the result that was claimed.

 

if they're not sure, they can use robot assistance.

Only if the bidding had finished and the play had started. If the board had not even been started, how can you have a real result?

[barmar]

Only if the bidding had finished and the play had started. If the board had not even been started, how can you have a real result?

How can you have a claim?