Disagree in bidding

[msjennifer]

8: 3 in ♠, 2 in ♥, 2 in ♦, 1 in ♣

Sir,

with a 10 card fit ,to count three losers in spade suit means all SAKQ are missing and that too concentrated in one hand.Two ,and not three ,losers in a 10 card fit is correct

 

 

[msjennifer]

The sequence 1S-4S shows a hand weak in high-card strength with distributional strength. The reason for taking up three rounds of bidding is to deny the opposition the space to compete. It is foolish to jump to 4S here because (a) the opposition have had the opportunity to bid, but have remained silent; (b) you own the boss spade suit; © you have a semi-balanced five points.

 

There are many hands you could construct for partner where 2S might fail, never mind 4.

 

I would raise to 2S, but I would be prepared to compete to 3S.

 

 

 

Really? I count 9 losers.

Sir,

sorry but there is some pessimistic count of losers.TWO in spades as there is a 10 card fit, TWO in hearts,Two in Diamonds and ONE in clubs .That counts to SEVEN (As per my estimate.) A fearful one shall count as eight losers but certainly not nine.(as played in spades as trumps).

[AL78]

Sir,

sorry but there is some pessimistic count of losers.TWO in spades as there is a 10 card fit, TWO in hearts,Two in Diamonds and ONE in clubs .That counts to SEVEN (As per my estimate.) A fearful one shall count as eight losers but certainly not nine.(as played in spades as trumps).

 

I'd count Qxx(x) as two and a half losers if it is in a suit partner hasn't shown.

[aawk]

There are various suggestions on how to adjust the loser count. Many add a loser for an ace-less hand!

 

 

Yes but that is only for a openings bid not for a response,

 

If you open weak its the other way around so the responder got a extra loser for holding no aces

[aawk]

I'd count Qxx(x) as two and a half losers if it is in a suit partner hasn't shown.

 

With the LTC you can distract 1 loser so if you have 2 extra trumps it only counts as 1 LTC not 2

 

And counting half losers is not my style so Qxx is 3 losers but if you hold Qxx in trump its 2 losers

[2L8]

I am surprised that no one has said that opener missed. With 20 hi card its and a void I would have opened 2 C

[Angel_6]

Too sad if you can only bid 2♠ or 4♠

In this case you have to guess :rolleyes:

 

I'd suggest you describe your hand and let parter decide ;)

For 2♠ you have 2 spade cards too many, so I'd rule this out. Even with 5332 distribution a 5 card support is too much for 2♠.

For 3♠ (weak) you are a bit too strong. For a limit bid 3♠ you are a bit weak.

For 4♠ you should have a bit more distribution. However, I would bid 4♠ if partner had opened in first position.

I like 3♣ if this shows 4 card support weaker than a limit raise (Bergen).

I also like 2♣, if this is Drury, and partner can tell you if he has an opening and/or 5 card spade suit at all.

[nige1]

Nigel, you left the ♣K out of the south hand.

Sorry :( Thank you :) Corrected :)

[hrothgar]

I am surprised that no one has said that opener missed. With 20 hi card its and a void I would have opened 2 C

 

May people strive to not open 2♣ with two and three suited hands

[pescetom]

May people strive to not open 2♣ with two and three suited hands

 

Especially opposite a passed hand.

[ruleof15]

I am south

 

Partner open 1♠ in 3rd position.

I respond 2♠ and partner jump to 4.

 

 

My hand : ♠109632 ♥Q754 ♦ 82 ♣ K7

 

Partner : ♠ AQJ74 ♥ --- ♦ AK53 ♣ AJ93

 

After the hand, partner said i was too conservative. Should bid 4 instead of 2.

I said that opps are 2 passed hands and p open in 3rd position. If he has a minimum opening hand

he will perhaps go down. The fact of bidding immediately 4 is like i was prempting partner.

 

What do u think of that ? ty

[ruleof15]

I am a firm believer of all new suits are forcing. After the 2S raise, a 3C bid is forcing. So, responder can bid 3S or even if bids 4S opener can bid 5D.This should elicit a 6S bid by responder after the 2 pushes. Especially with doubleton K in clubs.

[helene_t]

I don't see how 4♠ from you would help. Partner will have to gamble that you don't have too much length in the minor suits. After 2♠, at least he can try 3♣. If you take that as asking for a colaborating honour in clubs, you will respond positively and he can bid slam.

 

Do you play Drury? In that case, maybe 3♠ would show something like this. But otherwise, 2♠ is normal.

[fourdad]

I'm strongly in the 4♠ camp.

 

Don't walk the dog.

 

Are the opps 2 passed hands?

4S without a thought.

[shaky44]

I would bid 2S with your hand. To me, 4S in this spot describes a 7 loser hand. I think different partnerships can have different agreements, but that's the way I play it.

 

From your partner's point of view, I struggle to imagine south with a 8-9 point hand that doesn't give me a play for 6S.

 

Partner does not have to just bid 4♠

He could try an asking bid of 3♣ now you can help so bid 4♠ and again, I think partner has enough to bid 6

 

This is probably the best route to get there.

[msjennifer]

I am surprised that no one has said that opener missed. With 20 hi card its and a void I would have opened 2 C

Sir,

Pardon me (1) As depicted there are NINETEEN and not 20 HCP. (2) Three suited hands with 5044 are not opened 2C as it lacks 22(some players require 23)HCP, as also they are difficult to handle in order to depict correctly one's actual hand.(3)The hand lacks the minimum number of QUICKLY establishable tricks required for a 2C opener.(4)The spade suit is not a self sustained suit. (5)Lack of 5+ defensive tricks in the event opponents overcall and partner has a misfit passed hand.(6)The 1S opening permits the opener to come into auction on next round just in case partner passes and opponents come in with ,a normally expected, 2H call either overcall or a balancing one. THANKS and GOOD LUCK.

 

[miamijd]

I think either 2S or 4S is OK. 2S may allow you to buy the contract for 2 or (more likely) 3S, and 3 may well be the limit. On the other hand, you might miss an occasional game if partner has the right hand.

 

As for slam, you'll get there after 4S (I would just blast 6).

 

After a raise to 2S, I suppose you could accept a 3C try (but I don't know that I would), in which case you'll get there.

 

All in all, big club methods like Meckwell Precision have a huge advantage on hands like these.

[werge]

No problem - actually best bidding would have been:

 

1 S 2 S

 

3 C 4 C

 

- and no way to mis 6 S

 

100% Quilty: Opener - 2 S is the only possible bid with that hand

[marklaf]

This is a good hand for partnerships to discuss. It is more a matter style than right or wrong. I do not want my partner to jump to six spades with the hand he holds--so I would close my eyes and bid 2 spades---If you believe that opener can bid again with his hand after 4 spades then 4 is fine. I also want partner to splinter over my 2 spade bid---.

[ibm386]

2 ♠is good.

With a minimal hand (11-12PO) of the partner and with distribution 3-0 and with k in the wrong position it's hard to do and 2♠.

If the partner has a stronger hand over 14-15PO he can say 2 clubs forsing an the auction can grow with 2♥-good hand or 2♠-minimal.

Slam are hard with bad distribution.

[mycroft]

Flat, trump rich hands are a pain to bid no matter what.

 

"I should just bid 4, eh?" A more normal "aggressive" third seat 1♠ is off 2 if we're lucky and have no trump losers. If either of those don't apply, -150 into nothing isn't -200, the Matchpoint Death Score, but it's certainly just a slightly squarer zero. And with this hand, how does he know you don't have ♥KQ75 ♣54? And when he bids 4♠, you feel like you've underbid your hand, but do you bid 5♣? Oops, partner's got a flat 18 and 4♠ is the limit. Oops, partner's got this hand, but with 12-ish; 4♠ is -1 into 4♥ cold even on the bad break, but 5 is going to get doubled. (and yes, in some of these scenarios, we have to wonder who added Sominex to fourth hand's tea, but it still happens).

 

I'm not saying that opener shoulders all the blame; responder had choices at both opportunities to make a more aggressive call. I've just been burned many times by raising to 4 without the singleton even without partner being a third-seat opener. But Opener definitely had choices on his second call, and "a more descriptive call" would have helped.

 

You're just not going to get to all the 24-point slams you can make.

[blackshoe]

You're just not going to get to all the 24-point slams you can make.

True. OTOH, you don't want to avoid getting to all the slams you don't make. That slam bonus is pretty shiny. B-)

[arepo24]

No question in my mind. I'm with your partner. You didn't bid enough.

I would immediately go to 4 spades (law of total tricks)

[AL78]

No question in my mind. I'm with your partner. You didn't bid enough.

I would immediately go to 4 spades (law of total tricks)

 

That is normally applied in a competitive auction when deciding whether to bid 3 over their 2 or 3, or when trying to shut out an opponent who has yet to bid but could hold a decent hand. I can't see why it would apply when neither opponent can say anything. It is losing trick count that is used as a guideline on how high to bid.

[John_H]

I am south

 

Partner open 1♠ in 3rd position.

I respond 2♠ and partner jump to 4.

 

 

My hand : ♠109632 ♥Q754 ♦ 82 ♣ K7

 

Partner : ♠ AQJ74 ♥ --- ♦ AK53 ♣ AJ93

 

After the hand, partner said i was too conservative. Should bid 4 instead of 2.

I said that opps are 2 passed hands and p open in 3rd position. If he has a minimum opening hand

he will perhaps go down. The fact of bidding immediately 4 is like i was prempting partner.

 

What do u think of that ? ty

The extra trump in a passed hand offsets the HCP weakness, but the hand isn't especially good, so 2S is reasonable. The extra strength and shape is in opener's hand and, having now settled on the suit, he/she needs to show more imagination with the rebid. 3C - showing the Ace - would be forcing and make responder's hand look better (KC now looks like it's good). Responder could then bid 4C, rather than 3S, to show a bit extra and the Club control, and then it's down to opener to decide whether to keep exploring or close out in game.