Disagree in bidding

[120248]

I am south

 

Partner open 1♠ in 3rd position.

I respond 2♠ and partner jump to 4.

 

 

My hand : ♠109632 ♥Q754 ♦ 82 ♣ K7

 

Partner : ♠ AQJ74 ♥ --- ♦ AK53 ♣ AJ93

 

After the hand, partner said i was too conservative. Should bid 4 instead of 2.

I said that opps are 2 passed hands and p open in 3rd position. If he has a minimum opening hand

he will perhaps go down. The fact of bidding immediately 4 is like i was prempting partner.

 

What do u think of that ? ty

[hrothgar]

I don't feel strongly either way and think that either approach might end up working.

 

With this said and done, I suspect that I would bid an immediate 4♠

 

You have a 10 card fit in spades AND neither of the opponent's were able to find a bid.

Odds are your partner is sitting on a legitimate opener and I'd want to be in 4♠

 

I would definitely bid 4 at IMPS and would probably do so at MP as well

[TylerE]

I'm strongly in the 4♠ camp.

 

Don't walk the dog.

[sfi]

I'm not crazy about jumping to 4S with a flat hand. However, despite the 5-count this hand feels like it has too much playing strength for a simple raise. An invitational raise doesn't describe it well, so I'm left with 4S.

[LCarey13]

I guess I'm in your court. If your partner opened with only what he had promised - 13 points, 5 so so spades and likely representation in all suits, you'd be over your heads with a response of 4 spades.

 

I use the Audrey Grant bidding system, and was taught a couple years ago that you don't respond 4 spades with the hand you had. I guess that's why it's important when playing to understand each other's bidding practices and agree with them, which is hard to do if you're dropping in to games with strangers. ;D

 

You couldn't have known the strength of your partner's hand, only he was privy to that information, so "he who knows, goes" was appropriate for him, not you, to advance go 4 spades. Or anyway, that's how I play it.

[smerriman]

4♠ for me - there are some hands where this will be too high, but there are also plenty of others where you'll have 10 tricks and regret not being there. And if partner really does have a minimum opener, the opps are sure to balance over 2♠, so the choice is really whether you want to play 3 or 4.

 

However if my partner chose 2♠ instead, I would be fine with that.

[Vampyr]

I would like to have a singleton to bid 4♠, but would bid it with this hand. I do not see any way at all to get to slam.

[nekthen]

I would like to have a singleton to bid 4♠, but would bid it with this hand. I do not see any way at all to get to slam.

 

If my partner bids 4♠ I bid 6

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&n=SAQJj74HDAK53CAJ83&s=ST9632HQ754D82CCK7&d=N&a=PP1SP2SP4SPPP]250|200| 120248 asks " I am South. After the hand, partner said i was too conservative. Should bid 4 instead of 2? I said that opps are 2 passed hands and p open in 3rd position. If he has a minimum opening hand he will perhaps go down. The fact of bidding immediately 4 is like i was prempting partner. What do u think of that?"

++++++++++++++++++

IMO, you both bid reasonably but conservatively.

Especially if non-vul, South could jump-raise.

Over South's 2♠, North could splinter. [/hv]

Edited May 3, 2020 by nige1

[nekthen]

Partner does not have to just bid 4♠

He could try an asking bid of 3♣ now you can help so bid 4♠ and again, I think partner has enough to bid 6

[nekthen]

 

Over South's 2♠, North could splinter. [/hv]

 

I doubt I'd bid more than 4♠ over 4♥

[aawk]

Based on the LTC I would raise to 3♠ if we play for IMPs (on agreement that all direct raises in a major show 0-9 HCP).

 

Playing for MP a direct raise to 4♠ is ok.

[Tramticket]

The sequence 1S-4S shows a hand weak in high-card strength with distributional strength. The reason for taking up three rounds of bidding is to deny the opposition the space to compete. It is foolish to jump to 4S here because (a) the opposition have had the opportunity to bid, but have remained silent; (b) you own the boss spade suit; © you have a semi-balanced five points.

 

There are many hands you could construct for partner where 2S might fail, never mind 4.

 

I would raise to 2S, but I would be prepared to compete to 3S.

 

Based on the LTC I would raise to 3♠

 

Really? I count 9 losers.

[sfi]

I doubt I'd bid more than 4♠ over 4♥

Really? You would accept a game try but not cooperate over a slam try? Sure, you have a wasted queen but you have length in the suit, your king looks excellent, you have another useful doubleton and you still have five trumps. If you do choose to bid 2S you should consider just driving to slam over a heart splinter. I'm not saying you should, but signing off is an underbid.

 

Back to the original post, 4S by opener is lazy. There are plenty of hands which would make a simple raise where slam is reasonable to good. Some slam try looks normal.

[AL78]

I would raise to 3♠ if I was playing with the partner who plays pre-emptive jump raises in the majors (0-7 HCP, 4 card support). I don't see the point in jumping to 4♠ with silent opponents, and no singleton or void. That looks like a way of going -1 when the room is in a spade partscore. Slam makes because opener is a stonking maximum and the hands fit really well together. If you remove South's ♥Q, the slam is solid, and if the ♣K is all that is needed for a good slam, maybe North should do something more constructive than simply raise to game.

 

♠Kxx

♥Qxxx

♦xxx

♣Kxx

 

This is a 2♠ raise and a flat hand, yet slam is on a finesse, despite the useless HQ. I think your partner is trying to project the blame for his own lack of vision. The objective of a post mortem is to learn and fix the mistake, not the blame, which means looking at whether you could have done something different.

[Cyberyeti]

[hv=pc=n&n=SAQJj74HDAK53CAJ83&s=ST9632HQ754D82CC7&d=N&a=PP1SP2SP4SPPP]250|200| 120248 asks " I am South. After the hand, partner said i was too conservative. Should bid 4 instead of 2? I said that opps are 2 passed hands and p open in 3rd position. If he has a minimum opening hand he will perhaps go down. The fact of bidding immediately 4 is like i was prempting partner. What do u think of that?"

++++++++++++++++++

IMO, you both bid reasonably but conservatively.

Especially if non-vul, South could jump-raise.

Over South's 2♠, North could splinter. [/hv]

 

Nigel, you left the ♣K out of the south hand.

 

Playing what I play, I'd bid 3♠ with 2N as a full value 3 raise or better (techinically spades only 4 card but in practice 5 unless exactly 4333 15-19), over 2♠, I would bid 4♥ with the N hand, S bids 5♣ and now N is bidding a slam.

[aawk]

Really? I count 9 losers.

 

holding a extra trump above the 8 fit counts as 1 loser less

[Tramticket]

Would you open 1S with: QJ754 83 Q953 AQ (in a strong NT context)?

[Tramticket]

holding a extra trump above the 8 fit counts as 1 loser less

 

There are various suggestions on how to adjust the loser count. Many add a loser for an ace-less hand!

[Cyberyeti]

There are various suggestions on how to adjust the loser count. Many add a loser for an ace-less hand!

 

I think more normal to add 1 for a queen not balanced by an ace.

[bluenikki]

I am south

 

Partner open 1♠ in 3rd position.

I respond 2♠ and partner jump to 4.

 

 

My hand : ♠109632 ♥Q754 ♦ 82 ♣ K7

 

Partner : ♠ AQJ74 ♥ --- ♦ AK53 ♣ AJ93

 

After the hand, partner said i was too conservative. Should bid 4 instead of 2.

I said that opps are 2 passed hands and p open in 3rd position. If he has a minimum opening hand

he will perhaps go down. The fact of bidding immediately 4 is like i was prempting partner.

 

What do u think of that ? ty

 

The responding hand potentially covers 4 losers, leaving out the possibility of the 10th trump covering a loser.

 

Single raise shows 3 potential covers, so is an underbid. Basically, it assumes the ♦ queen is useless.

 

Jumping to 4 assumes essentially that opener lacks the ♠ queen, so that the 10th trump is not a duplicated value.

 

Personally, I raise to 3.

[bluenikki]

The responding hand potentially covers 4 losers, leaving out the possibility of the 10th trump covering a loser.

 

Single raise shows 3 potential covers, so is an underbid. Basically, it assumes the ♦ queen is useless.

 

Jumping to 4 assumes essentially that opener lacks the ♠ queen, so that the 10th trump is not a duplicated value.

 

Personally, I raise to 3.

 

Oops, I meant the ♥ queen. Which was indeed useless as it turned out.

[bluenikki]

The sequence 1S-4S shows a hand weak in high-card strength with distributional strength. The reason for taking up three rounds of bidding is to deny the opposition the space to compete. It is foolish to jump to 4S here because (a) the opposition have had the opportunity to bid, but have remained silent; (b) you own the boss spade suit; © you have a semi-balanced five points.

 

There are many hands you could construct for partner where 2S might fail, never mind 4.

 

I would raise to 2S, but I would be prepared to compete to 3S.

 

 

 

Really? I count 9 losers.

 

8: 3 in ♠, 2 in ♥, 2 in ♦, 1 in ♣

[bluenikki]

I think more normal to add 1 for a queen not balanced by an ace.

 

that is for opener, not responder

[msjennifer]

Sirs, the South hand is too strong as played in Spades for a very conservative bid of 2S. IN fact most will try 4S .

It is not clear if the pair plays Drury(or reverse Drury for that matter).If they do then a conclusion can be drawn that the responders hand is a preemptive distributional hand with long spades.He is not making any of the other sub 4S bid even taking into account that the 1S bid is a third hand bid and the 4th hand has Passed.If I believe in my partner's preemptive bid in such circumstances I shall apply the LTC here.Passing 4S is indeed timid with ONLY FOUR LOSERS and shows the pessimistic approach of NORTH and is very strange.Anyone in North seat will take some action towards a slam.With no information available on the table I shall take responder to have a Eight losers hand and as per LTC jump to SIX spades There is nothing wrong with a 4S response by South and I, personally, consider it a 100% crime to pass on part of NORTH.Of course it is easy to construct hands ,after seeing all 26 cards ,where 6S may go down as well as where even 7S will be cold for that matter.One has to remember on the table that both opponents are passed hands and so there is no reason to pre empt, And if partner thinks that we can make 9 tricks ,by say a bid of 3S, against a third hand opening then the given hand certainly deserves to investigate a grand and lacking these a direct SIX spade bid.THANKS.Sorry for giving a long explanation but ,personally, I feel it is desirable in this particular case.