Rebid with 6+M4+m over 1M-2m

[nullve]

I believe this is my first poll.

 

M = major

m = minor

[gordontd]

I believe this is my first poll.

I believe it too.

[FelicityR]

I haven't answered the poll because it's easy enough to construct hands, depending on HCP count, suit quality and distribution where any of the above rebids could be in the equation.

 

Though part of the priority, I feel, is to concentrate on emphasising to partner that your major suit is a 6+M if you don't fit with his/her minor, as a doubleton will suffice (if only 6M) to bid the major suit games. I wouldn't hazard a guess between the frequency of four of a major and five of a minor games but expect the former to be far, far higher than the latter.

[nullve]

I haven't answered the poll because

Multiple answers are allowed, including 'some other bid (sometimes)'.

[mikeh]

The poll is of little use as framed

 

There is a huge difference between, say, AQxxxx x AKxx xx after 1S 2C and, say, AQxxxx x xx AKxx after 1S 2D

 

And of course opener may have 4 in responder’s minor. Indeed, that may be the intended poll, given that splintering is an option.

 

Now there is an even greater difference between clubs and diamonds, although the extent depends on style. For example, in NA, a common expert useage is to have a 2D response show 5+ while a 2C response is often 3 and may on occasion be 2.

[nullve]

And of course opener may have 4 in responder’s minor. Indeed, that may be the intended poll, given that splintering is an option.

Yes, 'm' was supposed to refer to the same minor in '6+M4+m' and '1M-2m'. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Tramticket]

Yes, 'm' was supposed to refer to the same minor in '6+M4+m' and '1M-2m'. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

And your basic system is?

 

In other words, did 2m create a game force?

[nullve]

And your basic system is?

 

In other words, did 2m create a game force?

The subittle of this thread is 'Standard 2/1 GF', but I guess it's not visible on a mobile phone. (It's not on mine. :()

[nullve]

From tonight on BBO:

 

[hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=st||pn|opponent,partner,opponent,nullve|md|4SK8762H9862DT3CJ7,ST9HKQDA982CAQT96,SQJ54H4DKQJ765C52,SA3HAJT753D4CK843|sv|e|rh||ah|Board%206|mb|1H|mb|P|mb|2C|mb|2D|mb|2H|mb|P|mb|4H|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|DT|pc|DA|mc|13|]400|300[/hv]

I can think of better auctions, but...

[chasetb]

I voted for sometimes raising the minor suit (with a minimum), and sometimes making a Splinter bid (with a non-minimum).

 

From tonight on BBO:

 

[hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=st||pn|opponent,partner,opponent,nullve|md|4SK8762H9862DT3CJ7,ST9HKQDA982CAQT96,SQJ54H4DKQJ765C52,SA3HAJT753D4CK843|sv|e|rh||ah|Board%206|mb|1H|mb|P|mb|2C|mb|2D|mb|2H|mb|P|mb|4H|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|DT|pc|DA|mc|13|]400|300[/hv]

I can think of better auctions, but...

 

I hate bids by both players, but West made the most egregious mistake. Signing off with 15 HCP (a King more than minimum), as well as 5 controls, is outrageous!

[helene_t]

Other than the obvious suspects like suit quality, strength, form of scoring and whether p is a passed hand it also depends which minor suit partner bids.

1♠-2♣ could be a 3-card suit so I would never raise with a 6♠4♣ hand. 1♥-2♦ is different.

 

But generally I would bid 2M if I don't have a slamish hand.

 

3M would be very rare, I think I would need all four top honours to consider that bid.

[fromageGB]

I had voted 2M and 3m at different times but that needs explaining. I like strength before shape, so 2M is your typical 12-14 except in particular circumstances, not showing 6, and to that unless responder has some specific additional distribution to show that is more important than hearing of opener's, responder bids a waiting 2NT (which does not indicate contract preference). Now opener bids to show shape, and this could be 3m. Responder now has an idea of opener's limitations, and can better judge what to do. On the hand in post #9, if 2♣ was a genuine suit (see helene #11) I prefer an opener rebid over 2NT of 3♣ to 3♥. It does not refuse a major preference.

 

Conversely on a 15/16 or 15+ sort of hand, opener would bid 3♣ immediately, and knowing of that strength, responder can make slam moves.

 

When opener has a typical 17+ he may rebid 2M (as when weak) if he is undecided at to direction, and then go beyond game, but when he knows the contract suit he may rebid 3m and push when responder doesn't.

 

Of course partner needs to be on the same wavelength, so discussion of 2/1 style is needed.

[nige1]

[hv=n&&d=w&w=SA3HAJT753D4CK843&e=ST9HKQDA982CAQT96&a=1HP2CP2HP4HPPP]300|300|

Nullve 'From tonight on BBO: I can think of better auctions, but...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Hands transposed to make West dealer.

If West had rebid 3♣ EW would likely reach the slam but I agree with ChasetB...

Playing normal BBO 2/1, East's 2♣ is G/F and Wests 2♥ rebid is unlimited. IMO, East's hand passes John McLaren's Ace extra test. Hence, rather than shut up shop with 4♥, East should temporize with 3♦ or 3♥.[/hv]

[Winstonm]

Other than the obvious suspects like suit quality, strength, form of scoring and whether p is a passed hand it also depends which minor suit partner bids.

1♠-2♣ could be a 3-card suit so I would never raise with a 6♠4♣ hand. 1♥-2♦ is different.

 

But generally I would bid 2M if I don't have a slamish hand.

 

3M would be very rare, I think I would need all four top honours to consider that bid.

 

I don't know nor do I criticize your system but for me the issue is whether or not opener's continuances are descriptive or conversational. By that, I mean that if opener raises clubs is that showing opener with a 2-suiter rather than with support? (PS: I can't imagine a hand where I would bid a 3-card club suit, but that's me.)

 

In my view, responder - with genuine clubs - will never grasp the level of support unless it is done immediately. There will be room later to show the extra length in hearts if it matters, and there is good reason to think partner may show delayed 2-card heart support on the way to a NT contract.

[Gilithin]

I don't know nor do I criticize your system but for me the issue is whether or not opener's continuances are descriptive or conversational. By that, I mean that if opener raises clubs is that showing opener with a 2-suiter rather than with support? (PS: I can't imagine a hand where I would bid a 3-card club suit, but that's me.)

I guess the majority of posters here play systems where a 3433 hand uses a 2♣ response in some strength range. It is possible that you respond 2NT with this, or use a specialised sequence in your FNT structure, but it does not seem to me to be particularly controversial to think that 1♠ - 2♣ might be a 3 card suit a small portion of the time.

 

In my view, responder - with genuine clubs - will never grasp the level of support unless it is done immediately. There will be room later to show the extra length in hearts if it matters, and there is good reason to think partner may show delayed 2-card heart support on the way to a NT contract.

This is something of a systemic issue. It is quite popular in parts of Europe to play that a direct 3m raise show extras and that with a minimum you first bid 2M and then show the minor support as a second rebid if the auction allows. This gives better strength resolution but poorer shape resolution. If that is the system in use, there is no reason for Responder to downgrade the club support based on it being a second rebid rather than a direct raise.

[mw64ahw]

The subittle of this thread is 'Standard 2/1 GF', but I guess it's not visible on a mobile phone. (It's not on mine. :()

Having a poll on something that is supposed to be standard suggests there isn't a standard, so you are reduced to conveying whatever approach you use.

Perhaps Natural 2/1 GF would be a better description

[Douglas43]

If you play 2♣ as a not forcing to game, it may be worth setting a high level agreement that "we never play 4m in an uncontested auction". So 1♥ -2♣-4♣ is natural and forcing. This hand looks about right for that. Then pass 4♥ or 5♣. Anything else is a slam try with clubs as presumed trumps.