Small Tournaments

[Sir John D]

Hello BBO and TDs

 

I am from the UK and am finding it difficult to set up a small tournament. I have enjoyed BBO for a number of years and have pushed it on my students for about 10 years or so. Sadly, I have been unable to get online for a few years. However, due to these strange times, my neighbours have kindly allowed me to use their wi-fi.

 

Keen to share BBO with others, I have tried to set up small tournaments to keep people connected. However, there are two problems.

 

The first is that the computer keeps kicking the tournament out just as it starts. This has only been recently and I cannot work out what it is that I am doing wrong. Can anyone help with that?

 

The second problem is that I do not understand how the computer works out the movement. It would be helpful to be able to do a Howell movement for 2 to and including 6 tables, with a N/S sit out on Table 1 if there is a half table. But, I do not understand how to organise this or if I can.

 

Would anyone know who is geeky enough to understand computers. I have shared information with BBO but I can imagine that they are overwhelmed with queries and unable to manage the traffic.

 

Players are annoyed that they play the same opps or do not play some of them. Is there a simple resource that I can read that will help me understand.

 

To be honest, I do not understand how 40 pairs can play just 8 boards. Can anyone help me to understand this?

 

Or could someone help me understand how to organise a tournament for three tables and the total number of boards and the boards per round to use. Then the same for 4 tables, 5 tables and 6 tables? I don't think the computer does a Howell Movement and Mitchell Movements need share and relays. Sadly, I cannot find any resource to help me understand the number of boards to use for the rounds or in total. Would appreciate your help.

 

To all of you, please keep safe

[paulg]

TDs have no control over the movement, save you can make a tournament 'barometer' which means that the leading pairs get to play each other.

 

To be fair to BBO, I don't think anyone before the current influx of people ever worried too much about the movements because in short tournaments with large fields it really doesn't matter.

 

If you are starting free tournaments between 10am (EDT) and 6pm (EDT), then they will not start. This is to protect the BBO platform and its pay tournaments.

 

As far as I am aware, in all BBO tournaments every table plays the same boards for the round at the same time. I suspect some countries, like Norway, regard this as normal these days.

[0 carbon]

TDs have no control over the movement, save you can make a tournament 'barometer' which means that the leading pairs get to play each other.

Swiss tourneys work that way - they can because they are clocked, so all tables can shuffle at round start.

My understanding is that the barometer in any tourney just shows you your scoring up to what board you are on.

 

 

 

[0 carbon]

The second problem is that I do not understand how the computer works out the movement. It would be helpful to be able to do a Howell movement for 2 to and including 6 tables, with a N/S sit out on Table 1 if there is a half table. But, I do not understand how to organise this or if I can.

No half tables on BBO! You need to replace the Sitouts ASAP.

 

 

To be honest, I do not understand how 40 pairs can play just 8 boards. Can anyone help me to understand this?

The movements are BBO's attempts at mixing things up.

 

 

Unclocked: When several pairs finish, they are paired against new opps for the next round.

Clocked. You wait for clock=0 or slowest table. If clock reaches 2, then no further boards in the round are played and you get AVE on the unplayed boards.

Swiss: Clocked tourney, Best scores migrate to lower‑numbered Tables in each section.  EG, top players in section 1 will be 1NS, 2nd pair 1EW.  (see window/tab/profile title for your S# T#).  Bad scores move toward the higher‑numbered tables in each section. SWISS may mean playing the same opps again and again and again until one of you messes up.

 

Survivor: Swiss tourney, BBO will drop lowest scoring pair(s) at the end of 2nd+ rounds AND pairs with a red Partner, until only 7 tables/section are left. Swiss/Survivor is nice when you like to play against comparable opponents. You can set % dropped each round.

 

 

 

[Sir John D]

Many thanks for your feedback; much appreciated.

 

Keep safe

[biometrics]

 

To be honest, I do not understand how 40 pairs can play just 8 boards. Can anyone help me to understand this?

 

 

Of course you are able to increase the number of boards you want to play in a Tournament

 

 

Or could someone help me understand how to organise a tournament for three tables and the total number of boards and the boards per round to use. Then the same for 4 tables, 5 tables and 6 tables? I don't think the computer does a Howell Movement and Mitchell Movements need share and relays. Sadly, I cannot find any resource to help me understand the number of boards to use for the rounds or in total. Would appreciate your help.

 

I started to be a TD three weeks ago and the PDF File (Guide for BBO TDs) BBO emailed me was really helpful. In there everything is explained in detail.

The only problem I had at the beginning was I missed the 'Include/Exclude List' tab till I recognised I bookmarked an old version of BBO.

 

In case you did not receive the guide you can send an email to: michael.weber@meduniwien.ac.at

[criptik]

Suppose I have a small tournament with 8 pairs, 4 tables. I set it up for 7 rounds and I want each pair to play each other pair once (like they would in a howell movement). Will this requirement be met if I use "unclocked" regardless of which tables finish first? Will it also work with "clocked"? Something I read about clocked made it sound like it implied a mitchell type movement, but I am not sure if that holds for small table counts like 4.

 

And finally, if one is a playing director, is one restricted from going to a table on a director call? Today, I accepted a call but was not taken to the table.

[biometrics]

Suppose I have a small tournament with 8 pairs, 4 tables. I set it up for 7 rounds and I want each pair to play each other pair once (like they would in a howell movement). Will this requirement be met if I use "unclocked" regardless of which tables finish first? Will it also work with "clocked"? Something I read about clocked made it sound like it implied a mitchell type movement, but I am not sure if that holds for small table counts like 4.

 

And finally, if one is a playing director, is one restricted from going to a table on a director call? Today, I accepted a call but was not taken to the table.

 

I´m a new TD, too, but as far as I know there is no possibility to set up Howells.

 

I read lots of postings bringing up that problem but up to now the need for Howells for sure was low. That changed since lot´s of smaller Bridge Clubs (like ours) started to play their tournaments an BBO. But now the masterminds behind BBO have bigger issues to solve than that, I´m sure. I hope when these issues are solved there will be time to implement

a) robots as Subs and

b) Howell movements for small tournaments.

[paulg]

And finally, if one is a playing director, is one restricted from going to a table on a director call? Today, I accepted a call but was not taken to the table.

Yes.

 

It is a feature of being a playing director. You can adjust scores and make rulings in the 20 minutes after the tournament, so there is less need to go to the table. You have to chat over tournament chat to help them.

[criptik]

I hosted a 5-table Unclocked yesterday which I had set up only for 7 rounds (expecting only a 4-table). It turned out no one played the same pair twice but maybe we were just lucky?

[biometrics]

I hosted a 5-table Unclocked yesterday which I had set up only for 7 rounds (expecting only a 4-table). It turned out no one played the same pair twice but maybe we were just lucky?

 

I tried it, too. Here the same: no one played the same opps twice. Looks like it works like a Howell.

 

I will try on Wednesday again

[biometrics]

Yesterday: 6 Tables 10 Round unclocked. Some pairs played the same opps twice. => Implementation of Howells (and robots as Sitouts) would be great

[criptik]

We have had a couple of 4-table Unclocked 7 rounders with no pairs playing the same opps twice. But maybe there is no guarantee of this?

[criptik]

Is there a way to chat to everyone registered for a tournament before the tournament actually starts? For me, neither Chat->Tournament from the director's menu, nor picking Tournament in the regular chat window seems to do anything.

 

On a related question is there a way to chat to a list of usernames?

[paulg]

Yesterday: 6 Tables 10 Round unclocked. Some pairs played the same opps twice. => Implementation of Howells (and robots as Sitouts) would be great

It doesn't make a lot of sense to run an unclocked tournament and expect a movement (even though choice of movements is not available). People move when they are finished and there are opponents to play, so fast pairs will play fast pairs and rematches are likely.

[criptik]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to run an unclocked tournament and expect a movement (even though choice of movements is not available). People move when they are finished and there are opponents to play, so fast pairs will play fast pairs and rematches are likely.

 

So would there be less chance of a rematch in a Clocked tournament?

In a 4-table clocked would each pair play 7 different pairs or only 4?

(Somewhere I read that clocked tournaments are always "Mitchell" type movements, with pairs staying NS or EW)

[Sir John D]

The players near me enjoy playing at a local club for about 3 hours and play about 24 boards although it does depend on the movement. They get up and make refreshments if they wish although it is preferable when they are dummy. There is always that one pair that turns up late but the TD usually factors that in. Each board is about 7 and half minutes max although the TD can be flexible. Some players prefer Mitchell Movements and some prefer Howell Movements. Depending on the number of players, it is often necessary for share and relays and hesistations and skips - at which point, most brains explode. To help the playing director, there is a clock in the background that gives a warning a few minutes before the time is up.

 

In the black and white days, players were happy to get the scores the next week. But, now, it is possible to get the scores after play (during play was cancelled) and for those clubs using ye olde traveller, on the web site that night or the next day.

 

Students often cope with 18 boards and there are movement cards available that can help organise that.

 

But, the key is that players want to play all the boards and play the rest of the field.

 

So, to me, I do not understand how a tournament can be 'fair' if it is for 80 pairs or 40 pairs and just involves 8 boards. I know a director can change the number of boards but I still do no understand how the movement works. Does the computer creates different sections? I can't quite figure it out.

 

If I just want to play 8 boards, then I can go in to one of the bridge rooms and move every 2 boards. My partner can come with me and we can find another pair. If we wanted to, then we could set up a table for Experts or Advanced.

 

But for a tournament, I just want to play with the others. I don't want to be playing against experts or international players. If I want to test myself, then I can find some hands from important games and use them. Or use Bridge Master.

 

I just want to set up a small tourney for about 6 tables and enjoy. I just don't get the mass gatherings where I only play four pairs.

 

Playing N boards with the same folk just because they are free or as good as me can be done in the bridge rooms.

 

Is it just me? What point am I missing?

 

I spoke with a computer geeky bridge player and their reply was that the algorithm to create a Howell Movement was "dead easy". If that is true (and I have no idea), then if someone has the ear of the BBO, then could it be done?

 

I would enjoy the tournaments more and it was stop players from giving me grief.

 

Keep safe

[biometrics]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to run an unclocked tournament and expect a movement (even though choice of movements is not available). People move when they are finished and there are opponents to play, so fast pairs will play fast pairs and rematches are likely.

 

I twice hosted 4 tables with 5 rounds a 4 boards and one 3 tables with 4 rounds á 5 boards => pairs as well NS as EW but every round new opps.

 

I twice hosted 6 tables with 10 rounds á 2 boards. At the beginning (5 to 6 rounds) only 2 or 3 different opps. Again all pairs as well NS or EW. And I

 

never used swiss.

 

For sure BBO knows we are waiting for Howell movements. Let´s wait and see. I don´t think pushing to hard will help the issue to be solved

[criptik]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to run an unclocked tournament and expect a movement (even though choice of movements is not available). People move when they are finished and there are opponents to play, so fast pairs will play fast pairs and rematches are likely.

 

In my limited experience with small (4 tables, 7 rounds unclocked or 5 tables, 9 rounds, unclocked) I have not seen replays. I have seen many cases where 2 tables T1 and T2 are finished but all the pairs from T1 have already played all the pairs at T2, so the software will wait until some T3 is finished which contains pairs that have not been played yet. This is what I wanted but again I am not sure this is guaranteed.

 

I have not seen an answer yet, if I'm running small tourneys as above, say 5 tables, 9 rounds, am I more likely to get replays with clocked or with unclocked format? In clocked, do NS pairs remain NS and EW pairs remain EW for the whole tournament even for small tournaments (thus producing 2 winners)?

[pescetom]

I started to be a TD three weeks ago and the PDF File (Guide for BBO TDs) BBO emailed me was really helpful. In there everything is explained in detail.

The only problem I had at the beginning was I missed the 'Include/Exclude List' tab till I recognised I bookmarked an old version of BBO.

 

In case you did not receive the guide you can send an email to: michael.weber@meduniwien.ac.at

 

One important error in the guide "How to Create a Tournament on BBO": at the top of page 5 it says that at the top of the "Entries" tab you can define the maximum number of tables your game will have. In my experience (read "help, it's full!") it defines the maximum number of pairs (for a pairs tournament) or players (for an individual tournament).

[Sir John D]

Is there a way to chat to everyone registered for a tournament before the tournament actually starts? For me, neither Chat->Tournament from the director's menu, nor picking Tournament in the regular chat window seems to do anything.

 

On a related question is there a way to chat to a list of usernames?

 

I wish there was a way to do this, too. Other than to create a separate email list, I can'f find a way to talking to all. With current Data Protection legislation, I am loath to set anything so formal.

 

I have noticed that if I am looking at the details of a tournament and it starts, then I get the welcome message to the tournament. There is a way for a Director to chat to the tournament during play, but I can't find a way before or after the tournament.

 

It is times like this that I wish I understood how to create computer programmes, as it would be a useful to respond quickly to this query and set something up.

 

To all, keep safe

[Sir John D]

Yippee!

 

I have been given the facility to run Howell Movements. I am not sure why it has to be given. It would be a lot easier to tick a box when setting up a tourney. But, at least I can now set up a Howell Comp.

 

Now the problem is the number of boards and the number of rounds.

 

So, I have worked out or found this out:

 

I put +howell+ in the description of the tournament (not +Howell+) and the BBO computer "knows" that it is to be a Howell Movement. Plus, I make sure that all my tournaments are CLOCKED so that the pairs don't move earlier than the rest.

 

There is a way to let the computer put breaks in to the movement or automatically work out the number of boards, but for the moment, I haven't got my head round those. So, until I do, I have to consider the following:

 

To work out the number of rounds in a Howell, I multiply the number of tables by 2, and then deduct 1 from the answer. So, for a 3-table Howell, I would expect 5 rounds. That is, ((3x2)-1) using my simple math's brain that uses thick crayon.

 

Now the number of boards. I find that players don't want loads and loads. So, I can consider:

• 2 tables - 4 pairs - 4/5/6 boards per round, which equals 12/15/18 in total as there are 3 rounds. I would probably aim for 18
  
• 3 tables - 6 pairs - 3/4 boards per round, which equals 15/20 in total as there are 5 rounds. I would probably aim for 15, but with a stronger field, 20
  
• 4 tables - 8 pairs - 2/3/4 boards per round, which equals 14/21/28 in total as there are 7 rounds. I would probably aim for 14, but with a stronger field, 21
  
• 5 tables - 10 pairs - 2/3 boards per round, which equals 18/27 in total as there are 9 rounds. I would probably aim for 18
  

 

With 6 tables (ie 12 pairs), then it would be 11 rounds and the total number would be 11 boards or 22. Many players seem to dislike one board per round but 22 boards would be too many. The more tables, then the more boards. So, a similar problem.

 

It is interesting that in F2F clubs, players don't mind 24 or more boards, but for some reason, they dislike that many whilst playing online.

 

As for Mitchell Movements, then I have discovered that the BBO computer does its own version. As long as I organise a CLOCKED tournament, the computer will let the N/S "stay and the E/W pairs, will "move". However, as everyone plays the same boards at the same time, I doubt that the movement works out in the same way as if F2F. I am not going to even try to work it out. But, there does not seem to be a need for a skip or share and relay with even number of tables.

 

But, what I like is that by using the CLOCKED element in the creation of the tournament, there is no worry that players will be playing the same pairs over and over.

 

Again, I need to consider the number of rounds and the number of boards.

 

The BBO computer will create the Mitchell-styled Movement for tables up to and including 15 tables. So, I can consider:

• 5 tables - 10 pairs - 3/4/5 boards per round, which equals 15/20/25 in total as there are 5 rounds. I would probably aim for 15, but with a stronger field, 20
  
• 6 tables - 12 pairs - 2/3/4 boards per round, which equals 12/18/24 in total as there are 6 rounds. I would probably aim for 18
  
• 7 tables - 14 pairs - 2/3/4 boards per round, which equals 14/21/28 in total as there are 7 rounds. I would probably aim for 14, but with a stronger field, 21
  
• 8 tables - 16 pairs - 2/3 boards per round, which equals 16/24 in total as there are 8 rounds. I would probably aim for 16
  
• 9 tables - 18 pairs - 2/3 boards per round, which equals 18/27 in total as there are 9 rounds. I would probably aim for 18
  

 

The problem for me is that for 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 tables, I would end up with one board per round or two boards per round. That would give 10 to 15 boards or 20 to 30 boards. This part of the Movement is awkward.

 

However, once the tournament can register 32 pairs, then the BBO computer will create two section of 8 tables. So, each section keeps to itself and can play 16 or 24 boards.

 

I haven't experimented any further but would imagine that the computer will create another section if more tables were added. What the split would be, I don't know. There does not seem to be a clear document that gives such information. For me, it has been trial and error and trying to figure out from others.

 

Ideally, I would be happy with two sections of 9 tables playing 18 boards. Sadly, I doubt that I would get that many players to register.

 

Also, the Howell Movement does not permit more than one section and so, the BBO computer does not automatically do it and the movement is capped. I didn't register at what limit as I would only use the movement for at most, 5 tables.

 

Although not ideal, and there is room for improvement, at least I can now manage my smaller tournaments.

 

Am learning lots but just wish it was all in the same place.

 

Keep safe ♥

[Sir John D]

For sure BBO knows we are waiting for Howell movements. Let´s wait and see. I don´t think pushing to hard will help the issue to be solved

 

Just to confirm, a few weeks ago, I set up my first Howell tournament. It was an experiment and I set it up for 6 pairs only (ie three tables) and for one board per round. So, as there would only be 5 rounds, we had a maximum number of 5 boards. The tournament was CLOCKED. But, it worked. Each pair met the other pair and played their board.

 

I usually organise my tournaments for up to a maximum of 36 pairs. I do this as it would give me two sections of 9 tables, and thus, it would run like two Mitchell-styled tournaments. With 18 boards, the field is happy. Again, the tournament is CLOCKED. So, each N/S plays all the E/W.

 

 

I only use the Howell Movement if I have 3, 4 or 5 tables. This means that I can organise the number of boards per round around sensible numbers of 5, 7 or 9 rounds. However, the BBO Computer can cope with up to 40 pairs. How that would work, I can't imagine. With 20 tables, the mind boggles as to how it organises the boards per round. My lot prefer to play all the other pairs and have around 18 boards.

 

But, the Howell works. So, thanks to BBO Management and BBO IT Team [see https://blog.bridgebase.com/2020/04/18/how-to-run-howell-for-small-tourneys/].

 

Those Hosts with permission can now set up a Howell Tournament.

 

Keep safe