The hand from hell to lead from

[AL78]

This hand came up with my novice friend.

 

You hold as South:

 

♠3

♥KT32

♦AQ864

♣AT4

 

[hv=d=e&v=b&b=10&a=1sd1np2dp2sppp]133|100[/hv]

 

All vulnerable, matchpoint scoring. What is your lead?

[barmar]

I lead a trump.

[hrothgar]

Ace of Clubs

[Cyberyeti]

Also leading a trump

[KingCovert]

The 3♠ is, I think, an easy lead if you weigh the right considerations. 1NT over the double is not the same as 1NT without the double. You should expect that dummy is something like 2425 or 2524. Declarer doesn't know this when they bid 2♦, but, after the suit preference, it's pretty clear. 1NT with a singleton diamond is lunacy, and correcting to spades is also silly if they had 3 diamonds. So, it's super limited.

 

So, we have nice diamonds, we need to prevent dummy from ruffing any of them out. Partner is marked for seemingly 5 spades. So, the hand should go spade lead, probably won by declarer/dummy, diamond switch by declarer, you win it, you then try to break hearts or clubs as appropriate (look at dummy) and try get partner in to collect the last trump in dummy prior to the ruff of any diamonds by dummy.

[AL78]

My friend led a low diamond (ugh, I've told her before not to underlead aces). The full deal:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s3hkt32daq864cat4&w=s985hqj85dkj3c532&n=sqt64h764d2cqj986&e=sakj72ha9dt975ck7]399|300[/hv]

 

2♠ ended up just making. If she finds the ♦A lead, it goes (at best) ace, ruff, low club, ruff, club, ruff, heart, and South eventually makes their king, two down. Nobody defending a spade contract found that defence, so all declarers in 2 or 3♠ made eight tricks. One North managed to make 3NT, goodness knows how, or even how they got there.

[dsLawsd]

Partner seems to have a singleton diamond- so A diamonds unless you are italian and then the Club ace is it...

[hrothgar]

unless you are italian and then the Club ace is it...

 

Not sure what this is supposed to mean...

[AL78]

Partner seems to have a singleton diamond- so A diamonds unless you are italian and then the Club ace is it...

 

South doesn't know North has a singleton diamond at the point they make the opening lead. If anything, it might be more likely West has the singleton, so I can see why some are advocating a spade lead.

[pescetom]

Not sure what this is supposed to mean...

 

Me neither.

If it was an italian table, West would not bid 1NT and then things are quite different...

NS might find 3♣. If not, S would no longer have reason to lead ♠.

Still tricky to find the killer lead A♦ though.

I'm surprised that a small ♦ did not set the contract all the same - maybe S hung on to hearts for some reason.

[bluenikki]

My friend led a low diamond (ugh, I've told her before not to underlead aces). The full deal:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s3hkt32daq864cat4&w=s985hqj85dkj3c532&n=sqt64h764d2cqj986&e=sakj72ha9dt975ck7]399|300[/hv]

 

2♠ ended up just making. If she finds the ♦A lead, it goes (at best) ace, ruff, low club, ruff, club, ruff, heart, and South eventually makes their king, two down. Nobody defending a spade contract found that defence, so all declarers in 2 or 3♠ made eight tricks. One North managed to make 3NT, goodness knows how, or even how they got there.

 

Underleading AQ when opener is on your right is much worse than Ax. Leading the ace into opener from AQ is also terrible.

[bluenikki]

Not sure what this is supposed to mean...

 

Refers, I believe, to a famous/notorious lead by Pabis-Ticci in the 1968 Olympics final. (Partner has the club singleton, not diamond.)

[bluenikki]

My friend led a low diamond (ugh, I've told her before not to underlead aces). The full deal:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s3hkt32daq864cat4&w=s985hqj85dkj3c532&n=sqt64h764d2cqj986&e=sakj72ha9dt975ck7]399|300[/hv]

 

2♠ ended up just making. If she finds the ♦A lead, it goes (at best) ace, ruff, low club, ruff, club, ruff, heart, and South eventually makes their king, two down. Nobody defending a spade contract found that defence, so all declarers in 2 or 3♠ made eight tricks. One North managed to make 3NT, goodness knows how, or even how they got there.

 

Whoever told your friend not to advance 2♣ in that situation did a terrible disservice.

[AL78]

Whoever told your friend not to advance 2♣ in that situation did a terrible disservice.

 

My friend was South, she did consider that North could have bid their club suit. That might work out badly if EW still end up in 2♠, since South might now lead ♣A and another, giving declarer a trick.

[mikeh]

The 3♠ is, I think, an easy lead if you weigh the right considerations. 1NT over the double is not the same as 1NT without the double. You should expect that dummy is something like 2425 or 2524. Declarer doesn't know this when they bid 2♦, but, after the suit preference, it's pretty clear. 1NT with a singleton diamond is lunacy, and correcting to spades is also silly if they had 3 diamonds. So, it's super limited.

 

So, we have nice diamonds, we need to prevent dummy from ruffing any of them out. Partner is marked for seemingly 5 spades. So, the hand should go spade lead, probably won by declarer/dummy, diamond switch by declarer, you win it, you then try to break hearts or clubs as appropriate (look at dummy) and try get partner in to collect the last trump in dummy prior to the ruff of any diamonds by dummy.

I am not arguing about the lead as such. I came late to the thread so my opinion is tainted by seeing the hand. I do diapsagreecwith your analysis of likely shape for responder. While some 5422 is possible, IMO it is more likely that LHO has 2=3 in the pointed suits.

 

I assume MPs scoring, but the argument is similar at imps.

 

Opener does not promise 5=5, and 5=4 likely plays as well or better in the 5=2 than the 4=3, should opener be 5=4

 

Plus, and more important at MPs than imps, spades, when making, will often outscore diamonds

 

Finally, and important at both forms of scoring, 1N is typically a constructive bid, and 2D could be a fairly strong hand, while opener would usually raise notrump with, say, a 15 count 5242, he may have a decent 5=5, unwilling to commit to notrump, or even a decent 5431 hand. 2S gives him a chance, having shown diamonds, to invite game.

 

Thus responder should, IMO, almost always take the false preference to spades with 2=3 in the pointed suits

 

This doesn’t, in and of itself, negate a trump nor does it make the diamond A lead an obvious choice, but I do think that the spade is nit as clear as you suggest.

 

Tbh, and bearing in mind my caveat above, I suspect I’d lead a low heart. Partner is marked with some values, since we’re defending 2S, and I’d be hoping either for the A in partner)s hand or the Queen, with the Ace in dummy. Since the heart lead is a disaster, at least I can’t be accused of masterminding, lol.

 

FWIW, I detest the 1N bid, I’m indifferent about north’s pass due to having soft values (and not many of them), and would not have introduced that weak, short diamond suit, as opener, especially since South will almost always hold some length/strength there and I have little (basically no) game interest. This is not a good 15 on the auction. Were I AKJ9x xx A109x Kx, I’d like my hand quite a bit more, and would bid 2D.

[KingCovert]

Yeah Mikeh, seems like a reasonable analysis. I'm definitely not so familiar with constructive sequences in competition when playing something like 2/1.

 

I do agree though, this auction is pretty nonsense. Better players will make the wrong lead to this layout, but ultimately slaughter players who bid like EW

[StevenG]

Please remember that AL78 is English and these posts are (implicitly) about Acol. 1NT is the normal response on the West hand. Some might bid 2♠, but with no distribution to speak of and a reasonable probability of a 4 card spade suit opposite, it doesn't look much fun to me.

[johnu]

Refers, I believe, to a famous/notorious lead by Pabis-Ticci in the 1968 Olympics final. (Partner has the club singleton, not diamond.)

I don't remember the entire hand, but opening leader had ace fifth of diamonds, and ace 4th of clubs with nothing in the auction to suggest what to lead. The opening lead was ace of clubs from the 4 card suit instead of ace of diamonds from the 5 card suit. The lead was very successful.

[pescetom]

Please remember that AL78 is English and these posts are (implicitly) about Acol. 1NT is the normal response on the West hand. Some might bid 2♠, but with no distribution to speak of and a reasonable probability of a 4 card spade suit opposite, it doesn't look much fun to me.

 

That's why it is normal to specify "(Acol bidding)" and/or describe the 1♠ opening.

Most of us understood but no reason why we should.

[bluenikki]

I don't remember the entire hand, but opening leader had ace fifth of diamonds, and ace 4th of clubs with nothing in the auction to suggest what to lead. The opening lead was ace of clubs from the 4 card suit instead of ace of diamonds from the 5 card suit. The lead was very successful.

 

2 down in 4 major, vs making 5 at other table

[hrothgar]

Refers, I believe, to a famous/notorious lead by Pabis-Ticci in the 1968 Olympics final. (Partner has the club singleton, not diamond.)

 

thanks

[AL78]

Please remember that AL78 is English and these posts are (implicitly) about Acol. 1NT is the normal response on the West hand. Some might bid 2♠, but with no distribution to speak of and a reasonable probability of a 4 card spade suit opposite, it doesn't look much fun to me.

 

Yes, all players are playing Acol, so 1NT shows about 6-9 HCP. Sorry I forgot to clarify that at the start. I need to remember that most on here are not Acol players.

[RD350LC]

This hand came up with my novice friend.

 

You hold as South:

 

♠3

♥KT32

♦AQ864

♣AT4

 

[hv=d=e&v=b&b=10&a=1sd1np2dp2sppp]133|100[/hv]

 

All vulnerable, matchpoint scoring. What is your lead?

Here are my comments. Leading away from an ace in a suit contract is a very bad idea. Good chance of losing the ace entirely. Leading an ace is not much better. You would capture small cards, and that is not what an ace is for. So that rules out diamonds and clubs.

Leading a singleton trump is not much better. Good chance of trapping partner's Qxx in trumps. So that is ruled out.

Now people say leading away from a King is not a good idea. I don't mind leading away from a King. So my choice is a small heart.

[miamijd]

My friend led a low diamond (ugh, I've told her before not to underlead aces). The full deal:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s3hkt32daq864cat4&w=s985hqj85dkj3c532&n=sqt64h764d2cqj986&e=sakj72ha9dt975ck7]399|300[/hv]

 

2♠ ended up just making. If she finds the ♦A lead, it goes (at best) ace, ruff, low club, ruff, club, ruff, heart, and South eventually makes their king, two down. Nobody defending a spade contract found that defence, so all declarers in 2 or 3♠ made eight tricks. One North managed to make 3NT, goodness knows how, or even how they got there.

 

I suspect I would be with my Canadian attorney counterpart and lead a low heart (another losing lead for me). A trump, a low heart, or the Ad could be right. Much of it depends on how many diamonds dummy has. If dummy has 0-1 D (something like 2515), then a trump is probably best. If dummy has two diamonds (say 2425), then it's probably right to start a heart and rely on partner to provide a surprise overruff on the third round of diamonds. If dummy has three diamonds, then the Ad lead could strike gold.

 

And no -- no one defending 2S will find the defense you suggest -- no one at all. Come on. Ad, low d (asking for a club). At MP, after your X, what North in his right mind is going to lead a small club and hope you have the AT, rather than leading the Q?

[AL78]

I suspect I would be with my Canadian attorney counterpart and lead a low heart (another losing lead for me). A trump, a low heart, or the Ad could be right. Much of it depends on how many diamonds dummy has. If dummy has 0-1 D (something like 2515), then a trump is probably best. If dummy has two diamonds (say 2425), then it's probably right to start a heart and rely on partner to provide a surprise overruff on the third round of diamonds. If dummy has three diamonds, then the Ad lead could strike gold.

 

And no -- no one defending 2S will find the defense you suggest -- no one at all. Come on. Ad, low d (asking for a club). At MP, after your X, what North in his right mind is going to lead a small club and hope you have the AT, rather than leading the Q?

 

Obviously no-one is finding the double dummy defence, I never said anyone should.

 

How does leading a low diamond ask for a club? Normally that applies when giving partner a ruff, but on the opening lead?? I would be surprised to see anyone in my local club play signals that deep, and definitely no-one on the evening of the hand in question.