Lost the competitive battle

[AL78]

Random teams (i.e. turn up as a pair, randomly coupled with another pair):

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sa8ht94dk764cak97&w=skt7hk8dat3cqj842&n=s2haqj6532dq92ct6&e=sqj96543h7dj85c53&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=1n2h2s3h3sp4sdppp]399|300[/hv]

 

I was South. Given partner's lack of enthusiasm in the bidding other than the initial overcall, I couldn't visualise 5♥ being a good bid, and at teams, I decided to go for what I thought was a more certain plus score in the form of a penalty, but 11 tricks in hearts are cold. We took 4♠ two off which was 5 imps in, as our teammates in the same contract escaped for one off. I wasn't sure how to show a constructive/invitational to game raise of hearts over 2♠, so made the underbid of 3♥, as partner isn't going to misunderstand that (is four a reasonable punt opposite a vulnerable overcall?). Could we have bid better here, or is this just one of those boards where the opponents did the right thing and it is difficult to find the winning action?

[hrothgar]

It is inconvenient that Spades outrank Hearts.

 

Life would have been much easier if you (South) had been able to cue bid the previous round.

As is, you were forced to chose between 3♥ and 4♥

 

Given your control rich hand and spade shortness, I think that you should have bid 4!H to begin with

[akwoo]

I don't play against weak NT very often, so none of my partnerships have much of an agreement about how sound our overcalls are against weak NTs. But you play against weak NTs often, so presumably you have implicit if not explicit agreements with your usual partners about your overcalls of 1N.

 

If what your partner has is considered an almost minimum vulnerable overcall (in terms of playing strength) of 1N, then I think you have a 3♠ bid over 2♠, showing a good heart raise with defense. The advantage of such a bid is that it sets up a forcing pass situation if opponents bid 4♠ (since you have forced to game based on power). If it goes (1N)-2H-(2S)-3S-(X)-4H-(4S) to you, you can pass and partner is now forced to bid or double, and will likely choose the right thing given their hand.

 

If your partner could be weaker (in playing strength - e.g. one fewer heart with the same point count), then 3♥ is enough.

 

Under no circumstances do I like 4♥ - I think that should be a more distributional raise.

 

Some people play a 2N bid by you over 2S as some form of Lebensohl even in this kind of situation, allowing you to distinguish a good raise to 3H from a courtesy raise to 3H (and distinguish between different strengths for 3m). It's probably a better use of 2N than natural here, but you and or your partner might not want to have to remember another convention.

[mcphee]

I think you should have committed your side to 4!H and make a stronger raise,3!S. 3!C should be F and help partner when you later raise hearts. I like 3C because it informs partner we own the hand and will set up a F pass situation if they bid to 4S. for example LHO will either raise S or pass, when partner repeats H you raise. Assuming LHO raised S and partner passed you get to bid 4H and now your judgement is greatly improved if either opp bids 4S. Your partner can pass which is F and you have an easy raise now I think.

[AL78]

I think you should have committed your side to 4!H and make a stronger raise,3!S. 3!C should be F and help partner when you later raise hearts. I like 3C because it informs partner we own the hand and will set up a F pass situation if they bid to 4S. for example LHO will either raise S or pass, when partner repeats H you raise. Assuming LHO raised S and partner passed you get to bid 4H and now your judgement is greatly improved if either opp bids 4S. Your partner can pass which is F and you have an easy raise now I think.

 

I don't think that would happen. If I bid 3C, LHO bids 3S, if partner passes, RHO bids 4S, and I am in the same position. If I bid 3S, that would shut out LHO, partner bids 4H, but even then, RHO is probably bidding 4S, and I have the same guess.

[akwoo]

I don't think that would happen. If I bid 3C, LHO bids 3S, if partner passes, RHO bids 4S, and I am in the same position. If I bid 3S, that would shut out LHO, partner bids 4H, but even then, RHO is probably bidding 4S, and I have the same guess.

 

No you don't - if you bid 3S, then after RHO bids 4S, you are in a FORCING PASS situation. You can pass and leave the guess to partner on a hand like this one where the guess is not clear to you. On this hand at least, partner has a pretty clear decision.

[hrothgar]

No you don't - if you bid 3S, then after RHO bids 4S, you are in a FORCING PASS situation. You can pass and leave the guess to partner on a hand like this one where the guess is not clear to you. On this hand at least, partner has a pretty clear decision.

 

FWIW, I prefer akwoo's recommendation to my original suggestion of 4M

[AL78]

No you don't - if you bid 3S, then after RHO bids 4S, you are in a FORCING PASS situation. You can pass and leave the guess to partner on a hand like this one where the guess is not clear to you. On this hand at least, partner has a pretty clear decision.

 

Apologies, yes you are right, I can pass and leave it up to partner, who can bid 5H holding a hand with minimal defence.

 

That actually raises an important point. I will put this auction to partner and ask what she would do. I'm not 100% sure she understands the forcing pass situation.