pre-empts work

[AL78]

This nasty hand came up with my friend and her partner:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s4hajtdqjt73cat93&w=skqt9532hk3dcj872&n=saj87hq9542da98c5&e=s6h876dk6542ckq64&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=3sdp4dppp]399|300[/hv]

 

She went two off, although Deep Finesse says it should make. The best contract is a heart game, which would probably be fouind if West had opened 3♣. The only way I can see to a heart game is if North passes, and South makes an aggressive double in the pass-out seat. North might then bid 4♥ based on black suit shortages in both hands. No-one else in the room found a heart contract, most were defending 3♠, either making or one down. Do you think if North passes instead of doubling, South is good enough for a takeout double?

[Cyberyeti]

4♦ is pretty much cold on a cross ruff, essentially cash the ♥A and ruff 3 clubs in dummy and 2 spades in hand, you have 8 tricks and ♦QJ10 left. If W ruffs high you can discard one of your losers.

 

The rule here is to act aggressively when short in opener's suit, so the double from S would be pretty routine after N passes (as he should), what are you going to do as N if S bids 4♣ ?

[AL78]

4♦ is pretty much cold on a cross ruff, essentially cash the ♥A and ruff 3 clubs in dummy and 2 spades in hand, you have 8 tricks and ♦QJ10 left. If W ruffs high you can discard one of your losers.

 

The rule here is to act aggressively when short in opener's suit, so the double from S would be pretty routine after N passes (as he should), what are you going to do as N if S bids 4♣ ?

 

Thanks, yes I agree with being more aggressive in the passout seat in general, especially with a shortage in opps suit, to cater for partner having a stack with no good bid. Care is required at the three level though, because the partner of the pre-emptor could hold a stack themselves, and forcing partner to the four level could result in a significant multiple of -100 on the card. That is the risk you take by being aggressive, but passing is also not risk free.

[Tramticket]

Thanks, yes I agree with being more aggressive in the passout seat in general, especially with a shortage in opps suit, to cater for partner having a stack with no good bid. Care is required at the three level though, because the partner of the pre-emptor could hold a stack themselves, and forcing partner to the four level could result in a significant multiple of -100 on the card. That is the risk you take by being aggressive, but passing is also not risk free.

 

Did you intend the double as penalties or take-out? It isn't just that you should be more aggressive in the pass-out seat - there is also a good principle that the player with shortage in the suit pre-empted should act if at all possible. So here, North has four spades and no reason to speak. South has a singleton spade and should strain to find the double.

[hrothgar]

Comment 1: North's double is unthinkably bad

 

Comment 2: A balancing double by South is reasonable.

[AL78]

Did you intend the double as penalties or take-out? It isn't just that you should be more aggressive in the pass-out seat - there is also a good principle that the player with shortage in the suit pre-empted should act if at all possible. So here, North has four spades and no reason to speak. South has a singleton spade and should strain to find the double.

 

I wasn't playing. The North player is an intermediate who I don't think is very good (worse than me). The South player is a friend who is an enthusiastic novice aspiring to improve, and I am trying to help her do that. One of these ways of helping is to look at her bad results when she plays with this woman once a month, and advise if they could have done better. In the most recent evening, they finished with a respectable score (a shade over 55%), and most of their poor results were not their fault (e.g. the cold game against them bid by only one other pair). I do partner her once a month on one of the stronger evenings as well.

[AL78]

Comment 1: North's double is unthinkably bad

 

Comment 2: A balancing double by South is reasonable.

 

Thanks, that is along my line of thinking, and is pretty much what I told her. I thought I'd post it here just to be certain I haven't missed anything.

[apollo1201]

Thanks, that is along my line of thinking, and is pretty much what I told her. I thought I'd post it here just to be certain I haven't missed anything.

 

In’addition to what other posters expressed about balancing, you can also give your friend more advice about responding to a TOX.

 

Indeed, she could have bid 4D with sth like

 

xxx

Qxx

Jxxx

xxx

 

Facing a normal direct TOX (short S and a very sound opening hand, or a powerhouse of its own), with an opening hand herself, a singleton and a secondary support for partner’s implied H, she should not content herself’ with 4 D but should commit to game.

 

Actually if I had just 1 bid, I’d rather chose 6D than 4. Unless I know partner Xes with such hands where any answer is then pure random.

 

With a 54 in the minors, it is probably better to bid 4NT (pick a minor) and play in a 44 C rather than 53 D fit. If this is too advanced bidding for her, she should just blast 5D.

 

Overall, you have a good educational hand on what is a TOX, what principles guide you for balancing, and what to to when partner Xes for TO.

[cherdano]

Comment 1: North's double is unthinkably bad

 

Comment 2: A balancing double by South is reasonable routine.

FYP

 

All these great intermediates working together with honours make the South hand really good.

[msjennifer]

Sir,

1) The TOD by North is just HORRIBLE.

2))If N passes then Souith hand is all too thin to make aTOD at this high a level

3)The 4D contract is all to easy too make on a cross-ruff.

4)After a TOD by North I would have preferred to play in the Moysian 4/3 Fit in 4H.The number of too many losers in D and C makes 4H more appealing to me.(Our TOD by N guarantees at least four two high honored cards in hearts AND no wasted values/length in the spade suit bid by West,).

[dsLawsd]

Possible but risky would be to call 3NT not double.

I today;s climate some thought to playing penalty doubles in some cases.

Pass stands out here since the auction is not over and partner will double with most reasonable hands.

[pescetom]

Sir,

1) The TOD by North is just HORRIBLE.

2))If N passes then Souith hand is all too thin to make aTOD at this high a level

3)The 4D contract is all to easy too make on a cross-ruff.

4)After a TOD by North I would have preferred to play in the Moysian 4/3 Fit in 4H.The number of too many losers in D and C makes 4H more appealing to me.(Our TOD by N guarantees at least four two high honored cards in hearts AND no wasted values/length in the spade suit bid by West,).

 

For once we more or less agree :)

[cherdano]

(Our TOD by N guarantees at least four two high honored cards in hearts AND no wasted values/length in the spade suit bid by West,).

This rule is insane. Bidding anything other than double with x KJx AKxx AJxxx would be horrible. What are you going to do - 4C?? 4N?? PASS???

[hrothgar]

This rule is insane. Bidding anything other than double with x KJx AKxx AJxxx would be horrible. What are you going to do - 4C?? 4N?? PASS???

 

3NT obviously!

 

If we don't have any Spade honors and RHO can't raise...

 

 

;-)

[cherdano]

Posted just the South hand on bridgewinners.

https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/bidding-problem-2-jwui39veyx/