Coronavirus

[barmar]

For a Confederate state, Florida is doing ok at getting its population vaccinated with 44% fully vaccinated, 28th best in the USA. Still 28th best??? is well below average.

I wonder if this is because a significant portion of the Florida population is snowbirds from the north, especially New York, who don't share the conservative attitudes of most southerners. My elderly mother normally just spends November to May in Florida, but has been stuck there since fall of 2019. (Unfortunately, her health has gotten worse, so it's not clear she'll be able to travel back home again.) She had nothing good to say about DeSantis's handling of the pandemic -- she had to travel several hours to get her vaccinations.

[thepossum]

It's in the nature of online chat we don't know each other all that well. This sounds serious, obviously, and, equally obviously, I will stay in ignorance of the details. But when it passes, as I hope it does, I will be happy to see you back.

 

Thx Ken and all. Its a very difficult situation after a long career and a long time in business to have deal with the situation I have been placed in through no fault of my own

I am having to spend an inordinate amount f time to protect a name I have worked my whole life to build up. 20 years of business contacts and legacy and current projects potentially compromised. etc

I don't have the resources (of any kind) to deal with such a situation

To face so many threats to my personal, professional and business reputation due to one inconsiderate party is rather upsetting

Definitely no time or energy or emotional resources to engage in any half decent passionate debate on anything

 

Chat later :)

 

Thanks again

[kenberg]

I wonder if this is because a significant portion of the Florida population is snowbirds from the north, especially New York, who don't share the conservative attitudes of most southerners. My elderly mother normally just spends November to May in Florida, but has been stuck there since fall of 2019. (Unfortunately, her health has gotten worse, so it's not clear she'll be able to travel back home again.) She had nothing good to say about DeSantis's handling of the pandemic -- she had to travel several hours to get her vaccinations.

 

I was wondering along the same lines. Once again we need to look at data with care.

 

Here is a recent article in the NYT:

 

https://www.nytimes....cine-doses.html

 

 

they list both "at least one dose" and "fully vaccinated", but additionally they restrict the data to age 18+. Probably the 18+ segment of the population in Fl is larger than average, and almost certainly the 65+ is a lot larger.

 

Sticking with 18+ we see that Fl does (slightly) better than MI in at least one dose, but not as well in fully vaccinated.

 

Of course now we are trying to get those younger than 18 vaccinated as well, but I am not sure how it is going. I assume that a 16 year old can just get vaccinated on his/her own, but maybe a 12 year old needs parental permission? We could spend a lot of time getting this all straight but it will probably change in another week or two.

 

 

I have an ex-wife living somewhere around Sarasota, I might ask my daughter if her mother got the vaccine. Or maybe I won't, it's none of my business. But I hope she would not have to travel several hours to get it. that sounds crazy. I assume that your mother is not living on an island in the Everglades.

[Winstonm]

Nearly all of the people who died from COVID-19 in the U.S. in recent weeks were not vaccinated, the Associated Press reports. Just 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were among fully vaccinated people, about 0.8 percent, according to an analysis by the outlet.

[johnu]

Nearly all of the people who died from COVID-19 in the U.S. in recent weeks were not vaccinated, the Associated Press reports. Just 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were among fully vaccinated people, about 0.8 percent, according to an analysis by the outlet.

I found a paragraph in that article especially interesting

 

The preventable deaths will continue, experts predict, with unvaccinated pockets of the nation experiencing outbreaks in the fall and winter. Ali Mokdad, a professor of health metrics sciences at the University of Washington in Seattle, said modeling suggests the nation will hit 1,000 deaths per day again next year.

 

1000 deaths per day on average!?!?!?

 

With more virulent and possibly/probably deadly variants like Delta, and the newly discovered Delta Plus (and who knows what other mutations could emerge 6 months from now), unvaccinated anti-vaxxers are putting the rest of America at risk. Maybe now is the time to make refusing a Covid vaccine a pre-existing condition in health plans.

[pilowsky]

Modelling also suggested that all through the 1960s and 70's we were on the brink of nuclear war (5 seconds to midnight).

Information filtered through journalists or politicians needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, mustard, herbs, spices, etc.

 

 

 

[y66]

From Where Did the Coronavirus Come From? What We Already Know Is Troubling. by Zeynep Tufekci at NYT:

 

But a better path forward is one of true global cooperation based on mutual benefit and reciprocity. Despite the current dissembling, we should assume that the Chinese government also doesn’t want to go through this again — especially given that SARS, too, started there.

 

This means putting the public interest before personal ambitions and acknowledging that despite the wonders of its power, biomedical research also holds dangers.

 

To do this, government officials and scientists need to look at the big picture: Seek comity and truth instead of just avoiding embarrassment. Develop a framework that goes beyond blaming China, since the issues raised are truly global. And realize that the next big thing can simply mean taking great care with a lot of small details.

[Winstonm]

Modelling also suggested that all through the 1960s and 70's we were on the brink of nuclear war (5 seconds to midnight).

Information filtered through journalists or politicians needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, mustard, herbs, spices, etc.

I am fully vaccinated and will get boosters as needed so I say let the rugged individuals who distrust science and governments die if they so choose.

[jillybean]

I am fully vaccinated and will get boosters as needed so I say let the rugged individuals who distrust science and governments die if they so choose.

 

And those rugged individuals who chose not to be vaccinated should also find and fund their own ICU stays.

[Winstonm]

And those rugged individuals who chose not to be vaccinated should also find and fund their own ICU stays.

 

I am more inclined to encourage them to solicit the prayers of their favorite brand of witch doctor/pastor/priest and place a go fund me page on Facebook

[johnu]

Modelling also suggested that all through the 1960s and 70's we were on the brink of nuclear war (5 seconds to midnight).

Information filtered through journalists or politicians needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, mustard, herbs, spices, etc.

 

Modelling??? What about 1st person accounts. From the US side, there was Cuban missile crisis, and at least one computer glitch or sensor problem where the US thought the Soviets were launching ICBMs. And who knows how many times the Soviets were close to launching a 1st strike against the west.

 

List of nuclear close calls

[pilowsky]

If you want to watch a real-time evolution of a cluster, here is a link to a dynamic map of cases in Sydney.

We're up to 208 ATM.

http://bit.ly/COVID19NSW

[pilowsky]

In news just to hand: http://bit.ly/SKYchef

"We cannot just keep shutting cities down" to get through pandemic

27/06/2021

Chef Luke Mangan has called for the NSW government to open fully when it's possible and "learn to live" with COVID-19.

 

We cannot just keep shutting cities down to get through this, we've got to learn to live with it," he told Sky News Australia.

 

The city was coming back to full strength again, our businesses were looking great, the government had done a good job.

Look at Victoria, I've got friends with restaurants and hotels in the CBD there who are still really suffering.

They're on the four square metre rule still after being open for the last two or three weeks.

"Our government surely, Gladys Berejiklian, cannot follow that lead of keeping the square metre space and open slowly."

 

For those of you outside Australia, Skynews=Fox.

Luke Mangan is (allegedly) a cook.

Because nobody in Australia knows much about Tony Fauci, Sky(fox)news has taken to bashing the Australian Broadcasting commission's Health reporter instead.

His name is Dr Norman Swan a Scottish Jewish paediatrician.

Norman Swan's son is Johnathon Swan (Axios) whose face became a meme for "WTF are you talking" about after he interviewed Trump about COVID-19.

Gladys Berejiklian is the NSW Premier.

 

[pilowsky]

Sign of the times that the main problem with kissing an aide is that it breaches COVID rules.

Would it be OK if both wore masks?

[pescetom]

"Travel

Guidance recommending against travel to amber countries removed

Adults fully vaccinated in the UK will no longer have to quarantine for 10 days after returning from amber list countries".

 

Nothing said about adults fully vaccinated in amber list countries coming to UK, thus implying that they still have to quarantine for 10 days?

This seems vexatious, given the diffusion of Covid in UK vs many amber list countries.

[pilowsky]

Regarding the issue of thromboembolism.

A preprint of a paper undergoing peer-review states that the risk of bad side-effects from AZ is about the same as Pfizer and much less than getting COVID19.

http://bit.ly/AZasSafeAsPfizer

I note that this paper is not yet peer-reviewed so I'm a little surprised that it was made available.

Still, the information is likely more valuable than the stuff floating around on some Twitter feed.

[y66]

From Don’t Want a Vaccine? Be Prepared to Pay More for Insurance. by Elisabeth Rosenthal and Glenn Kramon at NYT:

 

The Affordable Care Act allows insurers to charge smokers up to 50 percent more than what nonsmokers pay for some types of health plans. Four-fifths of states in the U.S. follow that protocol, though most employer-based plans do not do so. In 49 states, people who are caught driving without auto insurance face fines, confiscation of their car, loss of their license and even jail. And reckless drivers pay more for insurance.

 

The logic behind the policies is that the offenders’ behavior can hurt others and costs society a lot of money. If a person decides not to get vaccinated and contracts a bad case of Covid, they are not only exposing others in their workplace or neighborhoods; the tens or hundreds of thousands spent on their care could mean higher premiums for others as well in their insurance plans next year. What’s more, outbreaks in low-vaccination regions could help breed more vaccine-resistant variants that affect everyone.

 

Yes, we often cover people whose habits may have contributed to their illness — insurance regularly pays for drug and alcohol rehab and cancer treatment for smokers.

 

That’s one reason, perhaps, that insurers, too, have so far favored carrots rather than sticks to get people vaccinated. Some private insurers are offering people who get vaccinated a credit toward their medical premiums or gift cards and sweepstakes prizes, according to America’s Health Insurance Plans, an industry organization.

 

Tough love might be easier if the Food and Drug Administration gives vaccines full approval, rather than the current emergency use authorization. Even so, taxpayer-financed plans like Medicaid and Medicare must treat everyone the same and would encounter a lengthy process to secure federal waivers to experiment with incentives, according to Larry Levitt, the executive vice president of KFF, a nonprofit focusing on health issues. (Kaiser Health News, where Dr. Rosenthal is the editor in chief, is one program under KFF.) These programs cannot charge different rates to different patients in a state.

 

KFF polling shows such incentives are of limited value, anyway. Many holdouts say they will be vaccinated only if required to do so by their employers.

 

But what if the financial cost of not getting vaccinated were just too high? If patients thought about the price they might need to pay for their own care, maybe they would reconsider remaining unprotected.

[kenberg]

From Don't Want a Vaccine? Be Prepared to Pay More for Insurance. by Elisabeth Rosenthal and Glenn Kramon at NYT:

 

 

 

I suppose the issue could be phrased as "Is being a moron a pre-existing condition?". If so then maybe they have to be protected from rate increses.

[pilowsky]

I suppose the issue could be phrased as "Is being a moron a pre-existing condition?". If so then maybe they have to be protected from rate increses.

 

This is an interesting question that could be phrased a little differently!

As people develop, they tend to become more cautious.

An adolescent might drive an aging Hillman Minx at over 100mph just for the pleasure of overtaking a sporty looking Valiant Charger.

Risks are evaluated differently when you are younger.

 

The question is, what role does the acquisition of knowledge and judgement play in modulating risk-taking behaviour?

Some people never acquire, synthesise and use information in a way that reasonably modulates their behaviour.

 

Problems arise when the inappropriate behaviour of a person affects others.

Suppose someone believes that voices in their head are telling them to kill people that don't believe in aliens.

This belief - true or not - is dangerous to both the individual and any alien-deniers near them.

 

How about a person that doesn't believe in motorcycle helmets?

The danger to others is that if they require extensive medical treatment for any brain injury that could have been prevented then there is an opportunity cost to the rest of us.

Their failure to protect themselves may result in a scarce resource (neurosurgical care) being taken away from you or me if we have a brain tumour.

It isn't enough to say, "oh well, if they want to risk harm, that's fine so long as they pay the cost" because they don't; we all do.

 

That's why some measures need to be mandated.

• Seat-belts
• Masks during a pandemic
• Vaccination if the spread of the disease is likely to kill others
• Full disclosure in a game of Bridge
• etc.

This brings us to the problem of how to characterise people that are responsible for governing and mandating but lack the ability or knowledge to do so.

Despite what some believe people don't "just get it". They have to learn it.

"I like this stuff. I really get it," Trump boasted to reporters during a tour of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, where he met with actual doctors and scientists who are feverishly scrambling to contain and combat the deadly illness. Citing a "great, super-genius uncle" who taught at MIT, Trump professed that it must run in the family genes.

"People are really surprised I understand this stuff," he said. "Every one of these doctors said, 'How do you know so much about this?' Maybe I have a natural ability."

[Gilithin]

An adolescent might drive an aging Hillman Minx at over 100mph just for the pleasure of overtaking a sporty looking Valiant Charger.

Risks are evaluated differently when you are younger.

Being young certainly is a pre-existing condition as far as auto-insurers are concerned.

[johnu]

Poll: Vaccinated adults are more concerned about delta variant of COVID -19 than the unvaccinated

 

Vaccinated adults are nearly twice as likely to worry that new variants like delta will worsen the pandemic nationally and locally, according to the latest tracking poll from the Kaiser Family Foundation.

 

Also, four out of 10 vaccinated adults worry they personally will get sick compared to 27% of unvaccinated adults.

 

But 14% of adults say they will “definitely not” get vaccinated, a share that hasn’t significantly changed since December.

 

Three-fourths of unvaccinated adults say they are “not worried” about getting seriously sick. A narrow majority say the vaccine is a bigger health risk than the coronavirus itself.

 

I nominate all the anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers who die from Covid because they refused to get vaccinated or wear masks to receive a 2021 Darwin Award.

[pilowsky]

The number of people vaccinated in Australia is pathetically small:

More than 18.2 per cent of Australians aged 16 years and over are fully vaccinated, including more than 25.2 per cent of over 50-year-olds and more than 40.5 per cent of Australians over 70 years of age.

Overall, about 33%.

The failure is mainly due to the political failure of our government.

In a fit of typical uselessness, Prime Minister ScottyFromMarketingMorrison (as he is called politely) declared that we don't have to worry because "it isn't a race".

Meanwhile, the press is pumping out paroxysms of disinformation about the danger of AZ so that nobody wants to take it because there's a chance they will get a blood clot and die.

 

 

[Winstonm]

I am hopeful COVID turns out to be extinction event and natural selection favors the vaccinated.

[awm]

 

Meanwhile, the press is pumping out paroxysms of disinformation about the danger of AZ so that nobody wants to take it because there's a chance they will get a blood clot and die.

 

Scary! I'm glad that I had Pfizer, which only makes you magnetic.

[Winstonm]

Scary! I'm glad that I had Pfizer, which only makes you magnetic.

 

Covid Clue: Professor X in Wuhan with Magneto.