Coronavirus

[johnu]

And after the new confederacy is established we invade and pass new versions of Jim Crow laws that make rebels second class citizens without voting rights .

 

Build that wall!!! Build that wall!!! Republicans will pay for the wall!!!

[hrothgar]

Why does the BBC report the Govt. spin as if it were fact? The new article by Nick Triggle (link) is merely parroting the party line without questioning a single statistic or hypothesis.

 

For example,

 

1. The much-touted herd immunity rate was somewhere around 65% of the population. England has already vaccinated 80% of all adults (which, probably is ~65% of the population). This number will rise by a further 2%-4% by June 21st. In effect, the herd immunity levels may have been reached -- so why is BBC not challenging the UK Govt on this point.

 

2. The original objective of the lockdown was "Protect the NHS". There is absolutely no indication that the infections are resulting in actual increase in ICU patients or in deaths or in any way stressing the NHS. If the very foundation of the lockdown no longer exists, why can't the BBC challenge the UK Govt about their rationale for deferring the normalcy date?

 

The BBC may not be in a position to assess if the deferral is merited or not. However, I find it really difficult to believe that the BBC has (over the past two weeks) only pushed the Govt's assessment of how a delay is important -- without giving any consideration to counter facts or counter arguments or robust challenges.

 

Annoying!

 

Have you bothered to do even the slightest amount of reading about the Delta variant before posting this nonsense? (You know, the variant that is now responsible for 90% of all new cases in the UK)

 

Annoying!

[shyams]

Have you bothered to do even the slightest amount of reading about the Delta variant before posting this nonsense? (You know, the variant that is now responsible for 90% of all new cases in the UK)

 

Annoying!

Are you assuming that I did not? Simply to take inane potshots when the opportunity arises? Go ahead.

 

PS: Is it because you Americans chose a terrible President to replace the Clown President and I had the temerity to call him out as bad?

[cherdano]

PS: Is it because you Americans chose a terrible President to replace the Clown President and I had the temerity to call him out as bad?

No.

[hrothgar]

Are you assuming that I did not?

 

Yes

 

Because the alternative is that you're too stupid to read a short article and draw obvious conclusions.

 

1. The Delta variant is at least 30% more communicable that early variants (perhaps twice as much so)

2. A single jab of two dose vaccines offers enormously less protection against Delta

3. Delta makes up 90% of the new infections in the UK

 

And you need to ask why earlier estimates about herd immunity levels no longer seem to carry as much weight?

 

OK fine.

You have done your reading.

 

You're just an idiot.

[thepossum]

Wondering when the world will wake up after a year and half of destruction of life, mass profits to testing corporations, PPE corporations, vaccine corporations, drug treatment corporations, other treatment corporations, research corporations,increased surveillance over our lives, big profits to all techs especially those in surveillance and related technologies

 

People still falling for technofascistic BS

 

Oops sorry forgot all the media fascism too. Possibly the worst of the lot

 

But hey. We are getting so many learnings from this devastation of so many people's lives maybe we will do better next time

[hrothgar]

Wondering when the world will wake up after a year and half of destruction of life, mass profits to testing corporations, PPE corporations, vaccine corporations, increased surveillance over our lives, big profits to all techs especially those in surveillance and related technologies

 

The official daily COVID death count in India is around 4K per day

Its widely believed that these estimates are off by an order of magnitude (and not in a good way)

 

That same delta variant is now widespread in the UK and starting to spread in the US.

 

Yes, the world needs to wake up, but attacking organized responses to the virus doesn't seem particularly helpful

 

What's your suggestion about what needs to be done differently?

[thepossum]

I'm just pointing out the obvious fascism and use of a situation Richard

 

Sorry for editing while you had replied

 

I have just been frightened by a year or more of BS and lack of questions by anyone

 

Herd immunity BS etc

 

Indefinite variants, indefinite testing opportunity, indefinite vaccine opportunity, indefinite surveillance etc

 

Jumping on questioners. Silencing. Coverup of potential causes of pandemic etc

 

What else. Covid the only problem the world faces it seems etc

[thepossum]

Sorry for sounding like a conspiracy theorist. I just have a very dark view of humanity sometimes and their various motives

[hrothgar]

 

Indefinite variants, indefinite testing opportunity, indefinite vaccine opportunity, indefinite surveillance etc

 

Jumping on questioners. Silencing. Coverup of potential causes of pandemic etc

 

 

Few high level comments:

 

1. I agree that a whole bunch of people have been jumping on CONVID denialists, anti-vaxxers, and the like

 

These people are sociopathic loons, and during a pandemic like COVID, they are both incredibly dangerous to have around and do enormous economic damage.

 

2. I also agree that the whole lab leak hypothesis was treated with enormous skepticism when folks like Tom Cotton and Mike Pompeo wer advancing it last year. Right now, it seems to be experiencing something of a Renaissance. I personally doubt that we will ever know with real certainty what happened. The one thing that I do know is the there is a reason that the story of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" has persisted for thousands of years. (And, there is a reason why this story got new legs when a new and more credible administration entered office)

 

3. It's far from clear how many variants of COVID will be able to emerge. I have heard claims that geometry of the COVID spike proteins are only capable of a fairly limited set of changes, so, with luck we'll (eventually) have them all under control. Until then, life is going to be pretty shitty. I had been hoping to be vacationing abroad in late fall / winter. Things are starting to look more doubtful, especially given my typical travel destinations.

[cherdano]

Sorry for sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I just believe that there is this vast but secret, global, collaborative effort to make us all us all afraid, and to cover up the real situation, just so that the global elite can continue pocketing its money and cement its power via its ubiquitous secret network that shows up everywhere, whether it's a meeting of the cabinet or the Rowan street homeowner's association.

[Winstonm]

Sorry for sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I just believe that there is this vast but secret, global, collaborative effort to make us all us all afraid, and to cover up the real situation, just so that the global elite can continue pocketing its money and cement its power via its ubiquitous secret network that shows up everywhere, whether it's a meeting of the cabinet or the Rowan street homeowner's association.

You forgot Q😏

[pilowsky]

Good grief.

Forget about "lab leaks" - or mad molecular scientists for that matter.

The scientists have been saying exactly the same thing since this started.

Now that Trump is out the same 76 million people that voted for Trump are ballooning their BS because - well - they have nothing better to do.

There was no lab leak, Arizona voted for Biden, the tooth fairy does not exist and Big Bird isn't funny.

[thepossum]

Sorry for sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I just believe that there is this vast but secret, global, collaborative effort to make us all us all afraid, and to cover up the real situation, just so that the global elite can continue pocketing its money and cement its power via its ubiquitous secret network that shows up everywhere, whether it's a meeting of the cabinet or the Rowan street homeowner's association.

 

The first to go ad hom :)

 

Sorry I ignore ad hom attacks these days. They just upset me and end in unnecessary conflict

 

You could actually have read what I said, observed what I have observed over the last 18 months and maybe thought a little before jumping on me

 

You could also have chosen not to misrrepesent me, not to misattribute stuff to me, not to misassociate me with stuff. That is ad hom. Look it up

[thepossum]

You forgot Q��

 

Another ad hom attack

 

Seriously did you not even read what I said. Aboslutely nothing was crazy conspiracy stuff. But clearly to some who like to attack anyone who raises questions etc

 

Starting to wonder if these attacks are anything to do with various other attacks in different parts of my life. There seems to be a process of total attack against every aspect of my life, business and identities, on multiple forums. And no that is not paranoid. I have all the emails (and documents) and attacks to back it up. It could be this issue or various others I work in that have triggered those attacks. They could of course be unrelated

 

Maybe think about what I said, read it, consider it, use whatever brains you have instead of instantly going all defensive and attacking the person

 

Bear in mind all this stuff is very international now. And often people behind aliases know who people are and go after them on multiple forums etc

 

Also it cant be lack of certificates. That would be ad hom but many people without those certificates get away talking BS on a regular basis here and everywhere

 

One thing I have learned about through my life is power and how if enough forces are stacked against one person or group with an unpopular/undesirable message/campaign there is not much we can do about it. We will be silenced using one of the many means at their disposal

 

And the evidence I have is totally uncontrovertible against some party. You don't know which party. But I hope people understand logic enough to know there are some things that are unchallengeably true - one or more parties are clearly involved in a disgusting personal and professional attack against me for almost 25 years, maybe longer. But I haven't checked my documents to make sure they haven't been modified recently :) you never know which potential respondent is responsible do you

[thepossum]

Few high level comments:

 

1. I agree that a whole bunch of people have been jumping on CONVID denialists, anti-vaxxers, and the like

 

These people are sociopathic loons, and during a pandemic like COVID, they are both incredibly dangerous to have around and do enormous economic damage.

 

Thankyou for actually addressing my points

 

 

2. I also agree that the whole lab leak hypothesis was treated with enormous skepticism when folks like Tom Cotton and Mike Pompeo wer advancing it last year. Right now, it seems to be experiencing something of a Renaissance. I personally doubt that we will ever know with real certainty what happened. The one thing that I do know is the there is a reason that the story of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" has persisted for thousands of years. (And, there is a reason why this story got new legs when a new and more credible administration entered office)

 

For almost 16-18 months????? anyone who dared even question anything in any media, any forum was jumped on and viciously attacked. Even silenced etc. Also curious how everything changes once the terrible Pre trump was removed by similar forces

 

It has not looked good for many in science, the level of politicisation, lack of scepticism, and the attacks against alternative points of view. Come to think of it its not just Covid where those similar groups behave in such a way. Silencing alternative points of view, often well thought out and considered etc. It has been a disgrace to any involved in it

 

 

3. It's far from clear how many variants of COVID will be able to emerge. I have heard claims that geometry of the COVID spike proteins are only capable of a fairly limited set of changes, so, with luck we'll (eventually) have them all under control. Until then, life is going to be pretty shitty. I had been hoping to be vacationing abroad in late fall / winter. Things are starting to look more doubtful, especially given my typical travel destinations.

 

I find the issue with the the multiple variants, the lack of effectiveness of the vaccines something that many intelligent thinking people knew was going to happen anyway. But we would have been silenced for not knowing what we were talking about.

 

And if others can not see the "conspiracy" of interests between media, techs, etc etc they must be blind and dangerous to the world

 

In conclusion to your points and others and all the attacks here and elsewhere and stresses here and everywhere in my life, simply for being an intelligent thoughtful observer and analyst. Do we still have democracy anywhere. Do we still have the right to ask intelligent questions, express informed opinions or do we truly have technocracy/technofascism or some other variant

 

I hate to say it but some of the attacks on various forums (please not directed at anyone) have some similar hallmarks and fingerprints, as do my posts no doubt. Very easy to wind me up and find out who I am anywhere

[hrothgar]

I find the issue with the the multiple variants, the lack of effectiveness of the vaccines something that many intelligent thinking people knew was going to happen anyway. But we would have been silenced for not knowing what we were talking about.

 

This is where we are going to start to disagree.

 

1. The vaccines were incredibly effective against against the original strain of the virus. A 95% effectiveness rate for a vaccine is an incredible success. It is certainly true that - in absolutely terms - some of the vaccines are not as effective against some of the new strains. However, relatively to most vaccines that have been developed in the past they are still quite effective.

 

The issue with COVID is that it spreads incredibly easily, it has a whole bunch of long term after effects, places enormous strain on health care systems, and kills a bunch of folks. As such, it can still be incredibly costly even with relatively effective vaccines.

 

2. I follow COVID pretty closely. And I haven't seen anyone silenced for making claims that the virus is going to mutate, current vaccines might become less effective, boosters might be necessary, ... (And this holds true going back to the start of the pandemic)

 

The people who get silenced (and rightfully so) are the ones pushing inane conspiracy theories

 

1. The vaccines will make you magnetic

2. The vaccines are much more dangerous than COVID

3. The vaccines contain microchips to track you

 

To me, at least, it feels like you're conflating these two issues.

[pilowsky]

The attitudes of Australians towards vaccination was studied recently and discussed on the Australian Broadcasting Commission (our free government-funded independent - slightly left-leaning - TV and Radio broadcaster).

You can read the transcript here: https://ab.co/3qpb7EE

For me, the most interesting feature was not the bias against vaccination amongst more conservative Australians - present but not as much as in other parts of the world - but the number of people willing to say that they thought that vaccination was "very safe".

Less than half (44%) of the population were willing to say that COVID-19 vaccines were "very safe" compared with 35% who were only willing to accept that vaccination is "mostly safe".

Several factors appear to contribute to this phenomenon.

There exists in Australia a dislike for funding research of any kind.

Sport yes. Medical research not so much.

Ask the average Australian if they would like to give money to support curiosity-driven research (into anything) or if they want to support an athlete to go to the Olympics. It's a no-brainer.

Consequently, there is a distrust of science which is fostered by politicians who play to the feelings of their constituents. Natural, but not helpful when science becomes essential to survival.

Fear of injections maybe another.

Oddly, these same people are entirely comfortable with driving cars, eating fatty food, smoking, and (my favourite neurotoxin) watching television.

With respect to non-COVID vaccines, vaccine-related unwellness is common - although death is not.

On the other hand, death resulting from the diseases that we commonly get immunised against is not as frequent as death (and yet to be determined) long-term sequelae as it is with COVID-19.

[Gilithin]

Less than half (44%) of the population were willing to say that COVID-19 vaccines were "very safe" compared with 35% who were only willing to accept that vaccination is "mostly safe".

This seems to show a fundamental misunderstanding of science and the way medical statistics work. What precisely does the term "very safe" even mean in this context? If I ask you whether a single shot Russian Roulette contest in a 6-shooter was "very safe", most likely very few would answer "Yes". But if the choice is a binary one between that and certain death, the Russian Roulette starts to look highly attractive and lowers out risk significantly.

 

Vaccines are not "very safe" in as much as that there are side effects, and in rare cases these can be quite serious. But they lower the risks for the vast majority of people and, equally importantly, for everyone else in their immediate social circle. It is the comparative risk that is important and if a major broadcaster such as ABC is actively encouraging its viewers to ask the wrong question, I see this as something of an issue and one that is likely to increase rather than diminish the current rise of vaccine hesitancy.

[kenberg]

Could there be polls, or other research, to get at just how people decide on whether to take the vaccine?

"Do you believe it is safe" sounds like a good question but I am not so sure.

My honest answer would be "Of course I don't know". I decide who I will listen to. I don't regard any source of information as infallible. Any source can be optimistic or pessimistic, or have a political or financial agenda, and so on. Still, I have to choose what to do.

It seemed that all in all, there was a substantial effort to get vaccines available and a substantial effort to get it right. I decided to place my bet on that.

I got vaccinated pretty early on (I'm old enough so I could get it soon and I got it). Becky is a bit younger and when it was available to her she was at first scheduled for the J and J vaccine but then it developed that if she were to wait a week she could get the Pfizer, and she decided to go with that. This seemed right to me. Why? Well, they had some number that in some manner evaluated it. The number for J and J was 70 something, the number for Pfizer was 90 something. Without getting into details, and we didn't get into details, 90 something sounded better than 70 something. So Becky waited a week and got the Pfizer.

 

The point here is that neither Becky nor I went on some massive search program to read all of the literature so that we could make a fully informed decision. I expect most people went at this in roughly the same manner as we did. But it could be useful to know just what people did.

 

I know that some people, including some doc who testified before the Ohio legislature, came to believe the vaccine will make you magnetic. Ok, she is somewhere between a nut and a moron. Still, even with nuts and morons, it could be useful to know just how she and others came to this belief. But, mainly, I think it would be more useful to learn how sane people decided to not take the vaccine. I expect that some people who would appear to be sane and of normal intelligence still decided against taking the vaccine. I would like to know how that decision was made.

 

I think a place to start is by acknowledging that my decision to take the vaccine was not based on thorough research. Few decisions are. I confidently placed a bet on what seemed right. So how did a sane and normally intelligent person decided against it?

 

Example: When I went for the shot they had me list my medications (When I was 70 my list of medications was empty. I am no longer 70). There was a brief delay while the woman who was to give me the shot checked to see if my medications presented any problems They didn't, But I have spoken with people who have told me, I believe honestly, that their doctor is concerned about whether it would be safe given the medication that they are taking.

[thepossum]

Deleted

 

Enough problems in life without arguing here for a while

 

It may have nothing to do with this forum or any other but I am currently engaged in defending myself against a full on attack against my person, my business, my professionalism, my character and everything

 

Chat later 🙂

[Gilithin]

I know that some people, including some doc who testified before the Ohio legislature, came to believe the vaccine will make you magnetic.

Here is another man who was clearly

. I would suggest that this effect is the origin of the Ohio woman's claims.

[kenberg]

Deleted

 

Enough problems in life without arguing here for a while

 

It may have nothing to do with this forum or any other but I am currently engaged in defending myself against a full on attack against my person, my business, my professionalism, my character and everything

 

Chat later 🙂

 

It's in the nature of online chat we don't know each other all that well. This sounds serious, obviously, and, equally obviously, I will stay in ignorance of the details. But when it passes, as I hope it does, I will be happy to see you back.

[Winstonm]

Here is another man who was clearly

. I would suggest that this effect is the origin of the Ohio woman's claims.

 

I wonder if Covid isn't evolution's way of eliminating the weak-minded.

[johnu]

I wonder if Covid isn't evolution's way of eliminating the weak-minded.

 

The government building was closed on Friday as a precaution. It reopened Monday but officials didn't implement a mask requirement, instead keeping them optional.

 

For a Confederate state, Florida is doing ok at getting its population vaccinated with 44% fully vaccinated, 28th best in the USA. Still 28th best??? is well below average. With all the anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers running around getting infected with Covid and then spreading it to unsuspecting victims, it's no surprise that this fatal outbreak happened in Florida, and absolutely expected that there would be no mask requirement in anti-masker, anti-vaxxer Republican governor DeSantis's state.