how to bid this hand

[phoenixmj]

[hv=pc=n&e=s6hak97532dcakj43&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=p2cp2hp2sp3cp3sp]133|200[/hv]

 

2c is either 22+ hcp or 8.5 tricks

2h is a positive response showing 8+ points and 2 of top 3 or 3 of top 5 hearts - guarantees 5 hearts

2s is natural

3c is partner showing second suit as clubs, so likely 5 hearts and 4 clubs

3s is showing spades as a strong suit at least 6

 

How does the bidding continue from here?

[Cyberyeti]

If partner's spades were solid, presumably he could have bid 3♠ rather than 2. I bid 4♣ showing at least 5-5.

[phoenixmj]

If partner's spades were solid, presumably he could have bid 3♠ rather than 2. I bid 4♣ showing at least 5-5.

 

I had not considered jumping in spades after a 2 club open. We are basically in a game force tryng to find the right place and level, and I thought we were supposed to go slowly to exchange as much info as possible. This is interesting.

[neilkaz]

Now I'll bid 4♥ which should show a really long suit. I don't mind the 4♣ Approach but we do have 2 more ♥ than ♣.

[hrothgar]

4♣ is the practical bid, because partner can't pass it and this gives us the best chance to figure out strain.

 

However, I am sorely tempted to just bid 7NT and save my energy for figuring out how to make it...

[akwoo]

I want to be in grand if partner has something like

 

♠AKQxxxx ♥Qx ♦AKxx ♣-

 

I want to be in 6♠, not 6♥, opposite

 

♠KQJTxxx ♥x ♦AKQJ ♣x

 

But I want to be in 6♥ opposite

 

♠KQJxxx ♥Qx ♦AKQJ ♣x

 

Exclusion right now would be for spades, not hearts, so that can't give me the information I need.

 

I don't see how bidding 4♣ right now could give me the information I need.

 

4♥ will be passed on many hands that make slam. I think even 5♥ will be passed on many hands that make slam.

 

So I think the practical bid is 6♥. Partner might find the correction to 6♠ with the right hand, and could find 7♥ with the right hand.

[phoenixmj]

[hv=pc=n&w=sakqj853h6dakt2c5]133|100[/hv]

 

OK - here is the other side of the story.

 

South has passed when the bid came to me. I opened 2C.

 

My partner bid 2H - so I know him to have 5 hearts and a good suit (2 of top 3 or 3 of top 5), and a minimum of 8 points.

 

I now mention my spades at the two level. I know someone mentioned bidding them at the 3 level, but I know I get to bid again so I bid them at the 2 level. Curious to know if that is an underbid?

 

Next, partner says 3 clubs - so I figure he is two suited - but they are my singletons. I really want to know if he has kings and aces in those suits so I can sluff my 2 losing diamonds. A void in diamonds is only useful if he has spades.

I next bid 3 spades.

 

My partner then made a bid that I think is an underbid - and he said 4 spades. By this point, I feel we should be in slam and I bid 4NT. He responded 5H and I bid 6 spades. I should have bid 5 NT to ask for kings - but instead I chickened out and bid 6 spades. WE made 7 and about 1/2 the field wound up in 7.

 

Now - if I ask for kings, he would tell me he had the king of clubs. I still don't know about the kind of hearts or if he has a queen in clubs. I know I will have transportation problems in all likelihood. Frankly - we are intermediate players rather than advanced - and we do tend to back away from 7 bids.

 

I would appreciate any advice as to how this auction should have gone now that you have both sides of the story. Should I open 1 spade instead of 2c? Should I jump in spades?

 

Thanks in advance?

[FelicityR]

If partner's spades were solid, presumably he could have bid 3♠ rather than 2. I bid 4♣ showing at least 5-5.

 

Given the West hand, and the positive response of 2♥, just bidding 2♠ is a lacklustre effort and, as Cyberyeti rightly says (rather clairvoyant-ly given the actual hand), you need to tell your partner immediately that your ♠s are solid from the top by bidding 3♠ immediately instead of 2♠. (The 3♠ bid usually sets the trump suit, too)

 

At that juncture, East knows immediately that either 7♠ or 7NT is the desired contract.

[ahydra]

Indeed, if the bidding starts 2C-2H; 3S showing a solid suit, I bid 7S as East (or go via 5D exclusion if the "solid" might mean KQJT9xx(x)). We have 4 tops + controls everywhere + source of tricks in hearts just in case partner somehow can't produce 9 tops.

 

ahydra

[Tramticket]

If partner's spades were solid, presumably he could have bid 3♠ rather than 2. I bid 4♣ showing at least 5-5.

 

Partner could bid 3♠ rather than 2. But I don't think that a failure to jump to 3♠ completely denies a solid suit. Partner might choose to take a slower route if there is a second suit (as here) or when partner wants to give you space to describe your hand. Once you show a positive, there is more reason for partner to take things more slowly.

 

That is certainly my style.

[Tramticket]

Partner probably wants to use RKCB and bidding 4C might give partner a problem.

 

We would have the agreement that we can't stop in 4S after a positive response to 2C and there is a lot to be said for just raising at this stage - partner has heard you give a positive and heard about your two suits.

[Tramticket]

I should have bid 5 NT to ask for kings

 

Yes. 5NT also confirms that all key cards are present. Partner should then bid 7S.

[Cyberyeti]

I had not considered jumping in spades after a 2 club open. We are basically in a game force tryng to find the right place and level, and I thought we were supposed to go slowly to exchange as much info as possible. This is interesting.

 

The attitude is right, hence the jump shows something specific and demands a cue. It says that I'm happy to play a grand in my suit opposite a small stiff and at a pinch a void.

 

I would open 1♠ on your hand, which is not going to be passed out.

 

To Akwoo: Partner's hand was AQJ10xx, Q, AKQ, Q10x 7♣ was the contract of choice, this is why you bid 4♣.

[Cyberyeti]

Partner could bid 3♠ rather than 2. But I don't think that a failure to jump to 3♠ completely denies a solid suit. Partner might choose to take a slower route if there is a second suit (as here) or when partner wants to give you space to describe your hand. Once you show a positive, there is more reason for partner to take things more slowly.

 

That is certainly my style.

 

The point is that if you have a solid suit of 7+ cards in a huge hand you almost never want to play in the second suit.

 

Here, there is no hand that wants to play in diamonds if the spades run (there is a faint possiblility if your hand is 742 rather than 7411).

[FelicityR]

Indeed, if the bidding starts 2C-2H; 3S showing a solid suit, I bid 7S as East (or go via 5D exclusion if the "solid" might mean KQJT9xx(x)). We have 4 tops + controls everywhere + source of tricks in hearts just in case partner somehow can't produce 9 tops.

 

ahydra

 

The old-fashioned Acol book definition of solid is a minimum of ♠ AKQJxx or ♠AKQxxxx, though if trumps don't behave there is a chance of a loser but that would be bidding against the odds.

 

Even so, you are quite right saying that even if 'solid' might mean KQJT9xx, responder has so much in support of a 2♣ opener that it is easy to visualise the final contract.

 

Don't think I'll ever get, or have ever had, 15 HCPs and two good suits opposite a 2♣ opener in my entire bridge life :(

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&e=s6hak97532dcakj43&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=p2c(22+ or 8.5 tricks)p2h(NAT 8+ HCP 5+!H to 2 top hons)p2s(NAT)p3c(NAT)p3s(6+!S)p]133|200|

phoenixmj's bidding problem.

++++++++++++++++++++++

 

1. 5N = Pick a slam -- Intending to bid grand, anyway.

2. 7N = Hrothgar grand stlam try -- Has a lot to recommend it.

e..g. partner might have ♠ A K J x x x ♥ x x ♦ A K Q J ♣ Q

3. 4♣ = Descriptive of shape but doesn't get over strength.

 

If partner might have as few as 8.5 playing tricks and lack ♠A, all actions are fraught with danger.[/hv]

[pescetom]

A jump to 3♠ for us imposes trumps and requires a control-bid, and that is what West would choose to do here, with or without the good news of 2♥.

So it would go something like:

2♣ - 2♥

3♠ - 4♣

4♦ - 4♥

5♣ - 5♦

5♥ - 5NT

7♠ - 7NT

[phoenixmj]

A jump to 3♠ for us imposes trumps and requires a control-bid, and that is what West would choose to do here, with or without the good news of 2♥.

So it would go something like:

2♣ - 2♥

3♠ - 4♣

4♦ - 4♥

5♣ - 5♦

5♥ - 5NT

7♠ - 7NT

 

Question - what does the 5NT bid mean or ask for?

 

I can see that responder is in a better position to see 7 rather than 6 because responder knows about the kings. When I bid, Iknew we had first round control of all the suits and I certainly expected that I would get all the spades. My concern was the 2 losing diamonds - especially when I did not get indication of partner having spades. How do I know that both my losing diamonds are covered - especially since I know that there will likely be transportation issues with my 2 singletons.

 

Could you explain the 5NT, 7S sequence for me?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

This has all been very helpful. We will definitely adopt the jump bid showing declaration of suit and a strong suit.

[Cyberyeti]

 

Don't think I'll ever get, or have ever had, 15 HCPs and two good suits opposite a 2♣ opener in my entire bridge life :(

 

Best hand I ever held was x, A, Axxxxx, AKxxx

 

Partner's hand was AKQxxxxx, KQJx, x, void

 

Our auction 2♣-3♦-4♠-7N, I wish they'd led a spade requiring you to discard the ♥A but they led a prosaic minor suit

[dsLawsd]

Very fun stuff where agreements need to be formed before now to have the best auction. I am still famous in Phoenix for bidding slam in my void= it was the only one that made.

 

Here, I might consider the same or I might bid 5♦ which cannot be natural and let partner field it. He looking at his cards will almost always make an accurate assessment (or be fired!) Ha Ha.

 

5NT pick a slam has much to recommend it also in a finely tuned partnership.

[hamish32]

The modern trend to open 2!C with extreme but weak hands causes quite a few problems if you don't discuss continuations.

 

Here 1!S would not be passed and leads to a decent auction

 

1!S - 2!H

3!S - 4!C

4!D - 4!H

4N - 5!H

5N - 6!C

6!D - 6!H

7N

 

2!H = game forcing

3!S = solid !S better than min (suit setting)

4!C/4!D/4!H = cue first or second

4N = key card

5!H = 2 no Q

5N = king ask (all keys held)

6!C this king

6!D this king

6!H this king

 

2!C used to show 23+ hcp or 22-24 balanced if partner opened 2!C and you held that responding hand with !H and !C you can pretty much bid 7N or you could offer !H then !C twice knowing that you where deciding which grand to bid.

 

If you open 2!C showing a hand that could be weak with 8.5 playing tricks then you must show that specific hand by jump bidding on the second round. I.E. a failure to jump to 3!S shows the serious 2!C opener described just above while a jump to 3!S shows the hand with solid !S and 15-20 HCP. Now partner will find the same sequence above because 2!C then 3!S set the suit making 4!C by responder a cue for !S.

 

Another alternative is to open 4!C and 4!D to show the tier major !C=!H & !D=!S and 8.5 playing tricks.

[GrahamJson]

What’s wrong with 2C-2H-3S-7S?

[Cyberyeti]

What’s wrong with 2C-2H-3S-7S?

 

A touch embarrassing when partner has AKQJxxxxx, void, AKxx, void, but you'reprobably not stopping in anything you can make, and 7♠ at least has chances 7N doesn't have

[bluenikki]

[hv=pc=n&w=sakqj853h6dakt2c5]133|100[/hv]

 

OK - here is the other side of the story.

 

South has passed when the bid came to me. I opened 2C.

 

My partner bid 2H - so I know him to have 5 hearts and a good suit (2 of top 3 or 3 of top 5), and a minimum of 8 points.

 

I now mention my spades at the two level. I know someone mentioned bidding them at the 3 level, but I know I get to bid again so I bid them at the 2 level. Curious to know if that is an underbid?

 

Next, partner says 3 clubs - so I figure he is two suited - but they are my singletons. I really want to know if he has kings and aces in those suits so I can sluff my 2 losing diamonds. A void in diamonds is only useful if he has spades.

I next bid 3 spades.

 

My partner then made a bid that I think is an underbid - and he said 4 spades. By this point, I feel we should be in slam and I bid 4NT. He responded 5H and I bid 6 spades. I should have bid 5 NT to ask for kings - but instead I chickened out and bid 6 spades. WE made 7 and about 1/2 the field wound up in 7.

 

Now - if I ask for kings, he would tell me he had the king of clubs. I still don't know about the kind of hearts or if he has a queen in clubs. I know I will have transportation problems in all likelihood. Frankly - we are intermediate players rather than advanced - and we do tend to back away from 7 bids.

 

I would appreciate any advice as to how this auction should have gone now that you have both sides of the story. Should I open 1 spade instead of 2c? Should I jump in spades?

 

Thanks in advance?

Did partner think 4♠ was forcing?

[phoenixmj]

Did partner think 4♠ was forcing?

 

I think he felt he had told his story. 2-suited and at least 8 points. His singleton spades makes his void worth less if we are playing in spades. I think the initial mistake on this bidding was mine - I should have jumped in spades to better describe my hand. I do think his hand was too strong to not ask for key cards - but I went on bidding because of my two singletons in his suits. I was hoping I can sluff. Turns out he had both kings as well - so it was cold for 7.