The lesser-spotted double wimp

[ahydra]

IMPs, nobody vul

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s74hj983dt95ca864&n=skjt8haqt5dcqjt75&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1c(2%2b)1dp3d(10-12)ppp]266|200[/hv]

 

NS system: weak NT, 5cM, 1C = 2+. 3D is explained as 10-12 points with diamond support.

 

ATB for -110 when we should be +140 (3H=).

 

ahydra

[masse24]

Thumbs up for the post title. :P

[DozyDom]

What? S has a normal 5-count and passed over interference. N should have been checked into hospital afterwards - either he's contracted narcolepsy, or he's clinically dead.

[KingCovert]

North not doubling 3D is just sinful. That hand is better than most 20 HCP hands.

[wank]

i disagree. doubling at the 3 level opposite a hand which can’t bid over 1d should show a better hand (offensively the hand is ok but you need more defence). most of the time p is going to have a 3343 4ish count and you’re dropping him in it.

 

it’s nothing like when rho opens 3d. then p has a far wider range of hands. after p’s pass of 1d his subset of hands is much smaller and dominated with misfitting rubbish.

 

the villain is south who forgot to bid the first time. if north does double south is too strong to just bid 3h.

[pescetom]

i disagree. doubling at the 3 level opposite a hand which can’t bid over 1d should show a better hand (offensively the hand is ok but you need more defence). most of the time p is going to have a 3343 4ish count and you’re dropping him in it.

 

The world would be boring if we all thought the same. But if I was north I would not forgive south if he made a free bid on that hand and not forgive myself if I failed to double on my own hand.

[AL78]

I don't know what North was thinking. He/she knows there is a guarenteed fit in one of the suits after EW have shown a nine card fit, and if that fit is in one of the majors, there might even be 4M on.

[johnu]

the villain is south who forgot to bid the first time. if north does double south is too strong to just bid 3h.

Agree, South also has solid 4 card support for clubs if North is unbalanced. I would not dream of passing 1♦.

[Cyberyeti]

Agree, South also has solid 4 card support for clubs if North is unbalanced. I would not dream of passing 1♦.

 

Would pass 1♦ like a shot, I want a hand (not knowing LHO is about to show 10-12) that if partner has 18-19 balanced is likely to make game, and this isn't it. Partner needs to be able to evaluate their hand in the event of a barrage, and it doesn't help if you bid on this sort of rubbish.

[akwoo]

As a weak NT player in strong NT land - I think that South has to bid 1♥. If North has a 15-17 NT hand, you're behind the field and need to catch up. If North has the unbalanced hand with clubs and a major, you're ahead of the field and need to take advantage. It's true that you're putting your side in danger if North has the 18-19 NT hand, but those are comparatively more rare.

[shyams]

I had read somewhere that the typical agreement for a natural-ish 1♣ with a 1♦ overcall was:

*** Dbl shows 4-card ♥ {may also contain 4-card ♠}

*** 1♥ shows 5-card ♥ {does not deny 4-card ♠}

*** 1♠ shows 4+ card ♠ {if exactly 4, then it denies 4-card ♥}

*** All of these are forcing on opener if advancer passes.

 

If I have this agreement in my arsenal, I would dbl as South. Else, I would bid 1♥.

[pescetom]

I had read somewhere that the typical agreement for a natural-ish 1♣ with a 1♦ overcall was:

*** Dbl shows 4-card ♥ {may also contain 4-card ♠}

*** 1♥ shows 5-card ♥ {does not deny 4-card ♠}

*** 1♠ shows 4+ card ♠ {if exactly 4, then it denies 4-card ♥}

*** All of these are forcing on opener if advancer passes.

 

I think a more typical agreement is that Dbl shows both majors 4-4.

[cherdano]

Would pass 1♦ like a shot, I want a hand (not knowing LHO is about to show 10-12) that if partner has 18-19 balanced is likely to make game, and this isn't it. Partner needs to be able to evaluate their hand in the event of a barrage, and it doesn't help if you bid on this sort of rubbish.

Wait, you are worried that LHO raises to 3D or 4D and partner won't know what to do with his balances 18-19?

 

In any case, agree with 1H being automatic - we do have an ace and we absolutely want to compete to 2H when partner has 4card support. Are you happy passing out a 2D raise by LHO?

[Cyberyeti]

Wait, you are worried that LHO raises to 3D or 4D and partner won't know what to do with his balances 18-19?

 

In any case, agree with 1H being automatic - we do have an ace and we absolutely want to compete to 2H when partner has 4card support. Are you happy passing out a 2D raise by LHO?

 

The problem is he doesn't know if I have this or AJxxx(x) probably means with a square 18 count with ♥KQxx he bids 4♥ over a barrage and goes off (possibly doubled if trumps misbehave) instead of defending. If partner is big and they only bid to 2♦ he may well call again anyway.

 

But also there are many less balanced hands where you know game will be great opposite pretty much any 5 card holding, but crap opposite this.

 

I would double with a queen more, or if my heart suit was Q10xx, instead of J9xx, I just feel you're a fraction too weak and about to hang partner.

[wank]

you have axxx in partner’s first suit. it’s daft to be fixating on the weakness of the heart suit. it’s often a double fit (yes, often, despite it being a 2 card club)

[cherdano]

The problem is he doesn't know if I have this or AJxxx(x) probably means with a square 18 count with ♥KQxx he bids 4♥ over a barrage and goes off (possibly doubled if trumps misbehave) instead of defending. If partner is big and they only bid to 2♦ he may well call again anyway.

Sigh. Maybe you could just occasionally reply under the assumption that the other poster might potentially have a reasonable point to make.

 

Hint: it's VERY unlikely that LHO raises to 3♦ and partner has a strong balanced hand - it would either require a 3D raise on 3-card support, or a four card 1♦ overcall.

 

So maybe let me be a little more blunt this time. If you are really very worried about the auction going

1♣ (1♦) 1♥ (3♦) 4♥,

then your hand evaluation is just very very very bad. Partner will have an unbalanced hand with diamond shortness 95% of the time, in which case he needs very little to make 4♥. Axx AKxx x KJxxx is a very decent game.

 

Finally, you completely ignored the point that we want to compete over 2♦ if partner has a WEAK notrump with four hearts. Where do you want to play opposite Axx Kxxx xx KQxx and how do you propose to get there after 1♣ (1♦) P (2♦)?

[Cyberyeti]

Sigh. Maybe you could just occasionally reply under the assumption that the other poster might potentially have a reasonable point to make.

 

Hint: it's VERY unlikely that LHO raises to 3♦ and partner has a strong balanced hand - it would either require a 3D raise on 3-card support, or a four card 1♦ overcall.

 

So maybe let me be a little more blunt this time. If you are really very worried about the auction going

1♣ (1♦) 1♥ (3♦) 4♥,

then your hand evaluation is just very very very bad. Partner will have an unbalanced hand with diamond shortness 95% of the time, in which case he needs very little to make 4♥. Axx AKxx x KJxxx is a very decent game.

 

Finally, you completely ignored the point that we want to compete over 2♦ if partner has a WEAK notrump with four hearts. Where do you want to play opposite Axx Kxxx xx KQxx and how do you propose to get there after 1♣ (1♦) P (2♦)?

 

Maybe you should realise that I have to decide what to do BEFORE LHO raises as I acknowledged in my previous post. The balanced hand will not have this issue, but many decent hands will.

 

Also if partner had a WEAK NT with 4♥, guess what, he opened 1N not 1♣.