Both remaining suits after an overcall

[pescetom]

MPs, playing 2/1 with 1NT 15-17.

 

[hv=pc=n&n=saq654hdjtckqjt54&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1d1h]160|240[/hv]

 

1♦ - 2♣ would have been a game force had West kept quiet.

A double now would promise exactly 4-card spades and suggest clubs too.

How do you decide to bid your black suits now?

Bid them directly, and if so in which order?

Or double anyway and then bid both suits if necessary?

Or cue 2♥ and then the same?

[Cyberyeti]

I bid 2♣ if it's natural, when I subsequently bid spaded this should be 6-5

[Stephen Tu]

A double now would promise exactly 4-card spades and suggest clubs too.

I don't see why this should suggest clubs. If 1S promises 5 cd spades, one needs a way to show 4 cd spades with hands that have alternative homes in notrump (heart stop), diamond fit, etc., that don't necessarily have much club length at all.

 

How do you decide to bid your black suits now?

Bid them directly, and if so in which order?

Clearly 2♣ followed by bidding spades twice. (Or maybe spades only once if East bids a lot of hearts)

 

Or double anyway and then bid both suits if necessary?

Only if 2♣ is being played as NF (negative free bids). But this is a hand why I don't like negative free bids, east can preempt after dbl and you haven't mentioned a suit yet.

 

Or cue 2♥ and then the same?

2♥ would promise diamond support and deny spades or primary clubs. Free bids are forcing so there is no need to cue to force; cue can be reserved for support hands.

 

 

[HeavyDluxe]

I'm olde fashioned... Longest suit first. 2♣ now, followed by spades.

[Tramticket]

I don't want to double and (maybe) hear partner pass for penalties(!) and I am mis-describing my hand.

 

Overcalling spades has the merit of getting our major into the picture. But we are very likely to lose the club suit.

 

I think that we are strong enough to make more than one call, so it seems obvious to bid clubs first and then spades. Of course there are risks to this approach, because you are not always able to show your major: (1) The opponents are very likely to preempt in hearts at this vulnerability. How do you feel if you never get to bidding your spades, let alone bidding them twice? (2) Depending how the auction goes, our spade bid might sound like a cue-bid rather than a real suit. Nevertheless, I consider 2♣ to be the best desription of the hand.

[FelicityR]

The ♣ suit is longer and stronger than the ♠ suit, and at a guess the opponents are going to pre-empt to 3 or 4♥, but not bidding the ♣ suit in preference to ♠ doesn't seem right.

 

So it's 2♣ from me followed by 3♠ or 4♠ which automatically shows 6-5 in the black suits.

 

Double seems completely wrong when you have so much playing strength. As for a cue bid of 2♥ that would indicate a limit raise in ♦s for most partnerships.

[pescetom]

Thanks to all who replied, the consensus seems clear. I wanted a sanity check because North was quite adamant about his decision to double and is usually a sound bidder. He was used to playing negative free bids until very recently which might be part of it.

[pescetom]

2♥ would promise diamond support and deny spades or primary clubs. Free bids are forcing so there is no need to cue to force; cue can be reserved for support hands.

I play this like you, but around here it is quite common to use the cue as a strength showing force, so I didn't want to rule it out as an option.

[Lobowolf]

I don't see why this should suggest clubs. If 1S promises 5 cd spades, one needs a way to show 4 cd spades with hands that have alternative homes in notrump (heart stop), diamond fit, etc., that don't necessarily have much club length at all.

 

Thank you.

[Lobowolf]

I don't see why this should suggest clubs. If 1S promises 5 cd spades, one needs a way to show 4 cd spades with hands that have alternative homes in notrump (heart stop), diamond fit, etc., that don't necessarily have much club length at all.

 

Thank you.

[AL78]

I'm with the majority, bid 2C followed by spades at whatever is the cheapest level (even if that is at the four level). If the overcallers partner pre-empt raises, that means we have a fit somewhere, and it is very likely to be in one of the black suits. I'll pay out if it turns out partner has a weak opening hand with 2371 or 2461 shape. If partner has a chance to support one of the black suits (optimistic), I will be looking for slam.