scoob Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 you hold: [hv=d=s&v=n&s=sa5hkq42dkt75cat6]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] and open 1NT partner replies 2♣ (presumably some non-GF stayman) RHO interferes with 2♠ (natural) rebid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 you hold: [hv=d=s&v=n&s=sa5hkq42dkt75cat6]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] and open 1NT partner replies 2♣ (presumably some non-GF stayman) RHO interferes with 2♠ (natural) rebid? Pass, what else?? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 i agree.. let's see, i suppose partner knows i'm, on avg, 16 hcp and, on avg, 4432... let's see what he has to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Yep, pass looks good, and I'll pass again if partner doubles.... If partner bids anything else I'll bid my hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I think a bid of 3H is more constructive at this stage than a muddy pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LH2650 Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 3 hearts. I’m on an excellent maximum, partner presumably has an invitational hand with a 4 card major, and I’m accepting. The vulnerability does not allow me to play 2 spades doubled. If I pass, partner bids 3 clubs, and I bid 3 hearts, is that forcing? I don’t intend to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I think a bid of 3H is more constructive at this stage than a muddy pass. You're V vs NV, and p can still have a garbage stayman... Good luck writing -1100. If p is invitational, he still has his lebensohl-or-whatever tools to ask again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I think a bid of 3H is more constructive at this stage than a muddy pass. You're V vs NV, and p can still have a garbage stayman... Good luck writing -1100. If p is invitational, he still has his lebensohl-or-whatever tools to ask again... Totally agree with Frederick and I pass too ! :P Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I think a bid of 3H is more constructive at this stage than a muddy pass. how is pass muddy? doesn't partner know your general shape and your strength to within a jack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Luke: There we go again... a 15-17 balanced hand is NOT a complete description of one's hand. There is still a lot to be said about it, and since 15-17 is already a rather independent hand, opener may want to take action. Pass is more like a 4333 or 4432 hand, very likely a min with defensive values, unsure of what to do. Here there is no doubt: you want to bid game, and the clearest way to do it is bidding hearts. Fredrick: I don't have an habit of thinking in terms of worst case scenarios. It is very unlikely that pard has the weakish 4-4-4-1 hand. And even if he does, he have a heart fit anyway. Besides, I can play cards. I don't go for -1100 just like that. But ok, maybe a -1100 is a normal occurrance to *you*... :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Fredrick: I don't have an habit of thinking in terms of worst case scenarios. It is very unlikely that pard has the weakish 4-4-4-1 hand. And even if he does, he have a heart fit anyway. Besides, I can play cards. I don't go for -1100 just like that. But ok, maybe a -1100 is a normal occurrance to *you*... :P Ok, maybe you always look on the bright side of life, I on the other hand consider all possibilities... Garbage stayman can be done with 4-3-5-1's as well as something else, so are you REALLY sure you have a ♥ fit? NO! And what if partner just has an invitational hand withouth ♥ and a silly 8HCP? You'll play a nice 3NT -1 or more because you only have 1♠ stopper, and even the best player in the worlds wouldn't be able to make the contract. If you'd have a 5 card ♥, I'd be able say you know a little how to bid properly. I haven't seen any proof of your awsome playing capabilities, so I won't (dis)agree on that. But when I make crazy bids like this, indeed, -1100 would be the score since I can play cards to, and won't go for -1400 or even less... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 (edited) I would double with 4 cards in ♠ (must contain a trump trick). I do not have those so I pass. Lebensohl is on. Partner is in a much better position to judge what is going on so for the rest I will leave it up to him. With a garbage Stayman hand we have the majority of trumps and he will pass. Otherwise he can bid 2NT (natural!) or perhaps something else. Don't fight please. Edited May 17, 2005 by Gerben42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I think a bid of 3H is more constructive at this stage than a muddy pass. The problem is pd didnt promise hearts, he could have spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reisig Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I don't use garbage Stayman - so partner is never weak. I play that Pass denies a stopper (no other meaning) and any bid is natural but includes a S stopper. So 3H does both. Partner does not promise a Major with 2C ...but I was accepting a try anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 But when I make crazy bids like this, indeed, -1100 would be the score since I can play cards to, and won't go for -1400 or even less... Good job I'm passing then, otherwise I'd be going for 1700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Ok, maybe you always look on the bright side of life, I on the other hand consider all possibilities... Garbage stayman can be done with 4-3-5-1's as well as something else, so are you REALLY sure you have a ♥ fit? NO! And what if partner just has an invitational hand withouth ♥ and a silly 8HCP? You'll play a nice 3NT -1 or more because you only have 1♠ stopper, and even the best player in the worlds wouldn't be able to make the contract. If you'd have a 5 card ♥, I'd be able say you know a little how to bid properly. I haven't seen any proof of your awsome playing capabilities, so I won't (dis)agree on that. But when I make crazy bids like this, indeed, -1100 would be the score since I can play cards to, and won't go for -1400 or even less... 1. Considering all possibilities is nice, but incomplete. One must also consider the probability of each possibility. Pard can have: - Invitational or better hand. In this case I have a max and want to bid game. I could skip a large penalty if pard has good spades, but that's it. In any case I'm going to bid and make my game, be it hearts or NT. - Garbage. In this case 4-3-5-1 is just one out of the various shapes pard can have. He can be 4-4-4-1, 4-4-3-2, 3-4-5-1 and a few others. Besides, even if pard has 4-3-5-1, there are ruffs in the short hand, so it won't be a disaster. So passing here on the excuse of "pard can be weak it's a misfit" is putting all eggs in one basket: pard having a weak 4-3-5-1. This is bad strategy, consequence of bad statistics. 2. About 3NT -1 with pard having 8 hcp. An invitational pard won't have less than 10 (1NT is 14-16, remember?). If pard has hearts, we play 4H. If he has spades, I still can't see any compelling reason for 3NT NOT to make. After all, we rate to have 2-3 stoppers. 3. About large penalties. When I was less experienced, I also made some crazy bids which would go for -1100 or whatever. With time I realized these frisky bids are not to be made at random. I developed a judgement which can tell me when I should make such a bid and when I should pass. It so happens that my judgement tells me one thing on this hand: "BID". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I don't use garbage Stayman - so partner is never weak. OK but what do you do if you play garbage Stayman ? :P Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I double, and this is not close. This hand is maximum even if you play 15-17, as it has prime values, is as short in their suit as can be expect, and has support for the other suits. If you pass, your parnter's double will be for takeout, so if his four card major is spades, you may have just missed the 2♠X opportunity. So pass is bad. In addition, 3♥, excuse me, is a wacky bid. Dbl for takeout and see what happens, as now your partner will be in the best position to make an intellegent continuation. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 ~snip~ An invitational pard won't have less than 10 (1NT is 14-16, remember?). ~snip~ Since when should I remember things which aren't correct? :blink: Unless mentioned otherwise, 1NT is standard 15-17. And even if it's 14-16, don't you ever invite with 9HCP? :blink: Plz don't start with wrong arguments, it won't help you and it only takes space from an honest thread... I'm done wasting my time on this silly argument, don't know why you wanted to get me in the first place, and I don't really care anyway. When the history of the hand is posted, I can already see what's going to happen:- either you were right and you'll feel victorious (but then my partner will probably bid again and we'll find the same contract)- your judgement really failed you, but you'll play great and note only -1100, and you'll be convinced that your bid will win in the long run so no harm done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Ben makes a good point. If double is take-out then that looks like the right thing to do. However, since most of us haven't discussed this sequence, how many people will take this double as take-out, or who will take it as showing 4 spades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 I abstain as we run out on a lot more shapes than mentioned. It reminds me of the earlier thread about opponents doubling our NT. (Granted after a 14-16 NT this is less likely.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Unless mentioned otherwise, 1NT is standard 15-17.This particular problem referred to a 14-16 NT. (See tread description.) don't know why you wanted to get me in the first placeI don't want to "get" anyone. I just wanted to defend my point of view. But again you're right.. why should I bother? When the history of the hand is posted, I can already see what's going to happen:- either you were right and you'll feel victorious (but then my partner will probably bid again and we'll find the same contract)- your judgement really failed you, but you'll play great and note only -1100, and you'll be convinced that your bid will win in the long run so no harm doneSpeak for yourself, Fredrick. I would never do such a stupid thing as claiming post-mortem victories or finding sorrow excuses for losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 If you pass, your parnter's double will be for takeout, so if his four card major is spades, you may have just missed the 2♠X opportunity. So pass is bad. i agree the hand is max with its 6 controls.. however, klinger (unless i'm mistaken, i'll check when i get home) plays double by partner as penalty.. there are other ways to invite and bid game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 If you pass, your parnter's double will be for takeout, so if his four card major is spades, you may have just missed the 2♠X opportunity. So pass is bad. i agree the hand is max with its 6 controls.. however, klinger (unless i'm mistaken, i'll check when i get home) plays double by partner as penalty.. there are other ways to invite and bid game Oh, I guess I should change the way I play then..... :-) Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 i didn't say or imply that... everyone has authorities in bridge... yours (even if it's you yourself) evidently prefers double in that situation for takeout... mine for penalties... sometimes one way works out, sometimes the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.