Complete and utter rubbish

[smerriman]

[hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?sn=smerriman&s=SAJ52HAQ85D2CAKJ8&wn=Robot&w=SKQ943HJ9DT95CQ63&nn=Robot&n=SHT7643DKQ876C975&en=Robot&e=ST876HK2DAJ43CT42&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=P1C(Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203+%20%21C%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points)P1H(One%20over%20one%20--%204+%20%21H%3B%206+%20total%20points)P3D!(Splinter%20--%203+%20%21C%3B%201-%20%21D%3B%204+%20%21H%3B%2021-%20HCP%3B%2019-22%20total%20points)P4D(Cue%20bid%20--%201+%20%21C%3B%204+%20%21H%3B%201+%20%21S%3B%20no%20%21CA%3B%20%21DA%3B%20no%20%21SA%3B%2011+%20total%20points)P4N(Blackwood%20%5BH%5D%20--%203+%20%21C%3B%201-%20%21D%3B%204+%20%21H%3B%2021-%20HCP%3B%2021-22%20total%20points)P5N(Even%20number%20of%20keycards%20and%20some%20void%20--%201+%20%21C%3B%204+%20%21H%3B%201+%20%21S%3B%20no%20%21CA%3B%20%21DA%3B%20no%20%21SA%3B%2011+%20total%20points)P7H(3+%20%21C%3B%201-%20%21D%3B%204+%20%21H%3B%2020-21%20HCP%3B%2022%20total%20points)PPP&p=DAD2D5D6S6S2SQH3H4H2HQH9HAHJH6HK&c=12]400|300[/hv]

 

jdonn said at one point he ignores threads with titles like these, but this deserves it.

[smerriman]

why are you bidding 7♥ when computer says "No ♦Ace two times"? Opponents not bid ♦ and not dbl your ♦ bids.

Read again. 4♦ promises the diamond ace.

[LBengtsson]

Read again. 4♦ promises the diamond ace.

 

I apologize. Read the bid not correctly. Deleted my quote. GIB bids are garbage.

[johnu]

I apologize. Read the bid not correctly. Deleted my quote. GIB bids are garbage.

As I've said before, GIB knows how to make splinter bids, but it has no idea what to do after the initial splinter bid because only the initial splinter bid has been programmed.

[spkcp111]

After playing BBO for more than 5 years, being a programmer myself...it feels like the Robot has gotten WORSE. People just aren't playing anymore--it's absolutely ridiculous... HORRIBLE bidding...absolutely ridiculous...

 

Wish they'd hire some DECENT programmers--know that's critical--but 5-10 years in IT is like a coons-age...And yet! Things just keep getting worse.

 

I'd think BBO would notice they are losing customers--it used to be many more people played the tourneys--now seems tourneys have a trickle of players...

 

GET IT BBO? Whoever your programmers are--they aren't cutting it!

[zhasbeen]

After playing BBO for more than 5 years, being a programmer myself...it feels like the Robot has gotten WORSE. People just aren't playing anymore--it's absolutely ridiculous... HORRIBLE bidding...absolutely ridiculous...

 

Wish they'd hire some DECENT programmers--know that's critical--but 5-10 years in IT is like a coons-age...And yet! Things just keep getting worse.

 

I'd think BBO would notice they are losing customers--it used to be many more people played the tourneys--now seems tourneys have a trickle of players...

 

GET IT BBO? Whoever your programmers are--they aren't cutting it!

 

I'd go so far as to say that GIB robots haven't improved one bit since I started 2 years ago, and there's little doubt in my mind that they are responsible for so many players leaving.

 

However, I doubt that the programmers have much, if anything, to do with it. GIB is GIB, and once it's assembled there's little that can be done to change anything. What BBO needs is some new robots but I'm sure they aren't cheap. I was thinking they could add them one or two at a time and use them in special tournaments, possibly charging extra for them. Then, over a period of time, they would have a small fleet. Something needs to be done, that's for sure. GIB is my only complaint of any significance, but it's a big one.

 

Other ideas, anyone?

[johnu]

I'd go so far as to say that GIB robots haven't improved one bit since I started 2 years ago, and there's little doubt in my mind that they are responsible for so many players leaving.

 

However, I doubt that the programmers have much, if anything, to do with it. GIB is GIB, and once it's assembled there's little that can be done to change anything. What BBO needs is some new robots but I'm sure they aren't cheap. I was thinking they could add them one or two at a time and use them in special tournaments, possibly charging extra for them. Then, over a period of time, they would have a small fleet. Something needs to be done, that's for sure. GIB is my only complaint of any significance, but it's a big one.

 

Other ideas, anyone?

When we talk about GIB robots, there is only 1 bridge program whose code is run in hundreds or thousands of instances at the same time (e.g. there are 3 instances of the same program running when you are playing in a robot tournament, 2 instances for your opponents, 1 instance for your partner) . (ok technically there are 2 versions, one is the basic version of GIB that uses fewer computer resources than the advanced GIB).

 

Substantially "Improving" GIB (as opposed to fixing some types of bugs) is beyond the capabilities of the programming staff (who were not involved in the original programming) in a lot of areas where the code is dense and very complicated, since small changes can introduce errors in areas that were not intended to be changed. If BBO were willing to change to a different base bridge program, everybody would be upgraded to the new program at the same time, however, BBO has repeatedly said they have no plans to change bridge programs.

[zhasbeen]

When we talk about GIB robots, there is only 1 bridge program whose code is run in hundreds or thousands of instances at the same time (e.g. there are 3 instances of the same program running when you are playing in a robot tournament, 2 instances for your opponents, 1 instance for your partner) . (ok technically there are 2 versions, one is the basic version of GIB that uses fewer computer resources than the advanced GIB).

 

Substantially "Improving" GIB (as opposed to fixing some types of bugs) is beyond the capabilities of the programming staff (who were not involved in the original programming) in a lot of areas where the code is dense and very complicated, since small changes can introduce errors in areas that were not intended to be changed. If BBO were willing to change to a different base bridge program, everybody would be upgraded to the new program at the same time, however, BBO has repeatedly said they have no plans to change bridge programs.

 

Your response is both surprising and interesting. I assumed that GIB couldn't upgraded and not that BBO wouldn't do it if they could. It looks like the only thing will get them to budge is losing enough customers, or maybe something else like losing their ACBL deal.

 

"If BBO were willing to change to a different base bridge program,..."

by "different base bridge program" do you mean keep the same machines but hiring staff that is capable of significantly upgrading the programming?

[fimre]

I get bad results on daylong tourneys since weeks. I examined a couple of hands and find that GIB plays very badly or even fatously. The human opponets bid so that I don't want my partner do. Here are some pearls:

 

2 clubs opening with 5 losers and a wrong 19 HCP: The doubleton Jx and Qx are not valuable

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn%7CSouth%2CRobot%2CRobot%2CRobot%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C3SAKQ72HAK73DQ6CJ4%2CS54HJ9864DA753C98%2CSJ9HQT5D942CAK632%2CST863H2DKJT8CQT75%7Csv%7C0%7Cah%7CBoard%201%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C2C%7Can%7CStrong%20two%20club%20--%2019%2B%20HCP%3B%2023%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%202N%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C3C%7Can%7CPositive%20--%205%2B%20%21C%3B%2011-%20HCP%3B%20%21CKQ%3B%208-12%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C3S%7Can%7C5%2B%20%21S%3B%2019%2B%20HCP%3B%2023%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C4S%7Can%7C5%2B%20%21C%3B%203%2B%20%21S%3B%20%21CKQ%3B%208-11%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CDA%7C

 

At first seat 1 spade with only four cards in the suit

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn%7CSouth%2CRobot%2CRobot%2CRobot%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C1SA862HAQDKT976CQJ%2CSK5HKJT42DA3CA962%2CSQT743H63DQJ4CKT8%2CSJ9H9875D852C7543%7Csv%7CB%7Cah%7CBoard%207%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7CMajor%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20%21S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%7Cmb%7C2H%7Can%7CTwo-level%20overcall%20--%205%2B%20%21H%3B%2010%2B%20HCP%3B%2011-18%20total%20points%7Cmb%7C4S%7Can%7CPreemptive%20raise%20--%204%2B%20%21S%3B%209-%20HCP%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CHT%7C

 

GIB showed the worst defense againnst the 4 spades contract. A beginner or even a moron who can count to 4 could set this contract, but robot stuffed it. But against me 'bot learned to count so I've got a bad score.

 

 

Taking finesse with a singleton J (more occasions) and fooling the robots and making overtricks is a common.

[fimre]

(Follows from the previous post)

 

Bad hand play from GIB

http://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn%7CSouth%2CRobot%2CRobot%2CRobot%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C4SKQ92HKQ8DK6CJ974%2CST8653HAT754D7CA8%2CSAJ74H96D832CQT62%2CSHJ32DAQJT954CK53%7Csv%7CE%7Cah%7CBoard%206%7Cmb%7C1D%7Can%7CMinor%20suit%20opening%20--%203%2B%20%21D%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CD%7Can%7CTakeout%20double%20--%203-5%20%21C%3B%202-%20%21D%3B%203-4%20%21H%3B%203-4%20%21S%3B%2012%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7CFree%20bid%3B%20new%20suit%20--%204%2B%20%21S%3B%208%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7C2C%7Can%7CFree%20bid%3B%20new%20suit%20--%204%2B%20%21C%3B%206-10%20total%20points%7Cmb%7C2D%7Can%7COpener%20rebids%20his%20D%20--%202-%20%21S%3B%2011-15%20HCP%3B%20twice%20rebiddable%20%21D%3B%2012-16%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C3H%7Can%7CTwo%20suited%20invitational%20--%205%2B%20%21H%3B%205%2B%20%21S%3B%2010-12%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C4H%7Can%7C3%2B%20%21H%3B%202-%20%21S%3B%2014-15%20HCP%3B%20twice%20rebiddable%20%21D%3B%2015-16%20total%20points%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CD5%7C

 

Against me, GIB found the winner play. My robot partner has no sense the trump opening lead.

 

 

I call this bid and play as "mockingbridge". The sad fact that players like that believe that they are good at bridge just winning against errornous GIB robots. They filled their profiles accordingly, their skills are "advanced" or even "expert"! And you are surprised reaching bad results partnering them...

[johnu]

"If BBO were willing to change to a different base bridge program,..."

by "different base bridge program" do you mean keep the same machines but hiring staff that is capable of significantly upgrading the programming?

By machines, I assume you are really talking about servers which actually run all the software. They would remain the same. Suppose BBO decided to license Jack. There would be some substantial changes to the interface required so that the Jack bidding and play engines would work with the existing BBO bridge screens. After that, the Jack computer code would be loaded and run on the servers so you would really be playing against Jack. I have no idea about the complexity of Jack's code. It may be as difficult to modify as GIB code. As long as Jack's owner is still actively developing the program, BBO could continue to receive upgrades and patches. Whether BBO programmers could effectively modify code from a different bridge program is unknown.

[jeigh]

Disclaimer: I'm a badly lapsed player, intermediate at best.

 

This is painful. I've discovered the duplicate and IMP robot play. If there were any thought of using that to refresh/polish my game, I've lost any hope. It would be utterly useless.

 

Bidding is average at best and uses a system that is very unintuitive, and at least for me, feels completely inconsistent and full of gaps. Every few hands, I'm presented with no available bids to describe my hand. It would be an improvement, if it could be done, to revert to a system that uses a less random-feeling set of conventions, and defaults to the conventions typical club players will use routinely.

 

The fact that you can hover a bid to get its explanation is one thing: needing to hover almost *every* bid to get an explanation is a sign of a system that is not very helpful. Sure feels random to me.

 

Card play is vastly worse, especially on defence. The robots lead almost at random. Low cards are almost never logically from suits with honors, and you usually lose tricks by responding to the robot's "signal" by leading back the suit. Honor leads (J or Q) are almost never from JT or QJ, etc. There is no such thing as signaling, either giving count/attitude or reading and reacting to same. Heaven forbid you should ever want your robot partner to lead a particular suit: you have a 25% chance of ever getting that.

 

Sort of makes you wonder what the point is. This is certainly no longer feeling like a platform that will encourage more people to play and help them to play better. It clearly adds nothing to "pleasure" of playing, just frustration and disappointment. And it certainly no longer feels like a platform I'd suggest new players to use to introduce the game.