Eleven Points 4333. What Next?

[FelicityR]

Yesterday at MPs I had the sort of hand I dread. Not enough to open (in my opinion) but when the bidding came round to me I was in "a bit of a fix". It would be interesting to find out how other players cope with this situation, especially at expert level, though I have posted this hand in the Intermediate and Advanced Discussion as that's my own bridge level of expertise.

 

We were play 4 Major/4 minor Acol with a 12-14 No Trump, though I have also made the poll to reflect if a partnership is playing 5 Major/3 minor 2/1 or the SAYC system with a 15-17 No Trump too. And, as always, thank you for your replies.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sat4h8643dkq7cq95&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=pp1c1h]133|200[/hv]

 

(For your information, my partner does not open light with a minor suit in 3rd position, though obviously other partnerships may elect to do so. And that can cause its own problems...)

[sfi]

What to do with this hand depends on specific system agreements:

- Does 1NT show a stopper? I would be happy bidding a heavy 1NT here.

- Does double show 4 spades and 1S show 5+? It's reasonably common to use one of these bids to show this sort of a hand. However, there are some experts that think having the ability to show 4 vs. 5+ spades is worth losing options on hands like this.

 

If you have these two agreements, you have made some hands (like this one) unbiddable. That may be fine if you win on other hands that fit your system better, but you should recognise your system has a hole.

 

If all that is true, you have four real options:

- Pass, which may work out if you have another chance to bid. Often you won't though.

- 1NT without a stopper. Partner has room to check for a stopper if interested in 3NT, but may not do so if not expecting this hand. Plus it's overstrength.

- X without four spades. The 4-3 may work when partner bids 2S, but you're ruffing in the long hand so partner will have to play carefully.

- Raise clubs, which will mislead partner about club length but has chances to work out.

 

I'm not clear what the "best" non-systemic agreement is though.

[P_Marlowe]

X

 

The only exception Maybe, X promises 100% 4 spades.

 

This is an example Hand, that showes why some Play that X in this Position denies 4 spades.

 

With Kind regards

Marlowe

[hrothgar]

Interesting hand

 

I'd cue bid 2!♥ in an Acol setting. Partner is likely to have either a real club suit or a strong NT opener.

 

I'd bid a heavy 1NT playing 2/1

[apollo1201]

As others said, having 1S for 4+ spades, and X denying them (or the reverse to maximise chances of having overcaller on lead) is for those hands. 1NT is then made with a stopper, avoiding partner’s Kx to be lead through at trick 1.

 

Depending on partner’s reaction, 1NT (extra strength compensates stopper!), X/1S or even 2C (partner will have length or strength) could be right.

 

Is partner forced to reopen with a 15-17 balanced? Then pass followed by a cue bid.

[HardVector]

I don't see you need to do anything here. What is partner going to pass this out with? It's likely that partner is going to bid something, and you can easily evaluate what to do at that point. Your heart length makes it unlikely that the opponents will get too frisky in hearts, but if they do, you can begin to imagine a heart void sitting with your partner. I'd pass, see what happens. What's the hurry?

[Tramticket]

For us 1S would promise a 5+ card suit, but double doesn't absolutely guarantee four spades, it just shows a hand without a suitable natural bid. In practice, it will usually show four spades but it also needs to cover this type of hand. If partner bids spades in response, I will bid clubs next - she will usually have a five-card club suit playing Acol (although 4144 is possible).

[mikeh]

A fairly common, tho not ‘standard’ treatment, amongst experienced pairs, is to play double as 4+ spades and use 1S for the hand where one has too much to pass and not enough to do anything else.

 

Absent that agreement, the old standard method was to pass, expecting that partner will reopen in some fashion and then one cuebids. If partner can’t reopen, then you may well be in the best spot anyway, since he will be either or both weak and with heart length, neither of which make bidding attractive.

[msjennifer]

SIR,if we were going to bid 1S had RHO passed then we still bid it at this level with 4 cards in spades .Hence our bid of a double DENIES four cards in spade suit.And with full 11 HCP I do not mind competing upto 3 level as all the points appear to be WORKING points with no wasted points any where.Hence it is an easy Double anytime. Of course if the system that one employs a double guarantees a 4 card spade suit then it is advisable to pass just now and play a waiting game.

[fromageGB]

Certainly I would (other) as I play transfer walsh in 2/1 strong NT, so X would show 4+ spades, and 1♠ is a relay for partner to make a descriptive bid. This is equivalent to Mikeh's suggestion. If opener rebids 1NT I have a choice of raising to 2NT, which I would not do on this hand, or in the same vein I could bid 2♥ to express that strength but suggest no top hearts. If he rebids 2♣ I am happy to pass, and if he rebids 2NT then I raise to 3NT.

 

The problem with pass is that opener can pass too, when you have 120 matchpoints available in NT yet only 50 or 100 in defence. I would pass at IMPs.

 

However, you did specify SAYC, and if you meant that precisely, then of course you do whatever SAYC dictates you do. I cannot answer that.

[maartenxq]

When fixed stay fixed, especially now we are playing weak NT. P is unbalanced or 15+ NT. I trust he will have another bid, then I can take action.

 

Maarten Baltussen

[ray_p]

As is often the case, the question is what is the smallest lie to partner!

 

Partner is still unlimited so misleading to pass again and wrong (if partner bids it's bound to be a double and pass of your return bid!)

No to a double - 1S would promise 5 cards and double promises 4 cards in spades,

 

In Acol, I like 2H,

- The 1C was a genuine suit 4+, so I am only one club short of the bid and very descriptive overall, and it gives partner the chance to bid NT and receive the lead when NT looks like the most viable game contract and partner long in C if weak.

 

In 2/1 probably bid a more cautious 1NT with the extra points balancing the weakness of hearts, since partner's natural rebid may well be 1NT or 2C anyway

[PhilG007]

Yesterday at MPs I had the sort of hand I dread. Not enough to open (in my opinion) but when the bidding came round to me I was in "a bit of a fix". It would be interesting to find out how other players cope with this situation, especially at expert level, though I have posted this hand in the Intermediate and Advanced Discussion as that's my own bridge level of expertise.

 

We were play 4 Major/4 minor Acol with a 12-14 No Trump, though I have also made the poll to reflect if a partnership is playing 5 Major/3 minor 2/1 or the SAYC system with a 15-17 No Trump too. And, as always, thank you for your replies.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sat4h8643dkq7cq95&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=pp1c1h]133|200[/hv]

 

(For your information, my partner does not open light with a minor suit in 3rd position, though obviously other partnerships may elect to do so. And that can cause its own problems...)

 

In each case I would bid 2♥ a Directional Asking Bid asking partner if they can stop the heart suit for No Trumps. This DAB is forcing and must be answered. If he has a heart stop,he bids 2 No Trumps.

which indicates a minimum hand which you pass. If he cant stop the hearts,he either rebids his suit if holding 5 + or bids a second suit asking for preference.

I remember reading somewhere that if you are stuck for a bid,use the enemy suit. It must be agreed beforehand,though. that this is 100% forcing

[helene_t]

Playing weak nt this is an easy 2♥ bid.

 

Playing strong nt, is is less clear. Pass, dbl, 2♣ and 2♥ are all reasonable. I don't think 1NT is reasonable, it certainly shows a heart stopper.

[ray_p]

An educational hand, to compare what different people consider are permissible or forbidden 'lies' to partner!

 

Good choice of hand Felicity!

[msjennifer]

A fairly common, tho not 'standard' treatment, amongst experienced pairs, is to play double as 4+ spades and use 1S for the hand where one has too much to pass and not enough to do anything else.

 

Absent that agreement, the old standard method was to pass, expecting that partner will reopen in some fashion and then one cuebids. If partner can't reopen, then you may well be in the best spot anyway, since he will be either or both weak and with heart length, neither of which make bidding attractive.

Sir,kindly clarify what does one bid ,with your suggested approach, with spades and hearts interchanged and when RHO overcalls 1Spade.Thanks.

[mikeh]

Sir,kindly clarify what does one bid ,with your suggested approach, with spades and hearts interchanged and when RHO overcalls 1Spade.Thanks.

After 1C (1S). We play negative doubles. With 4=3=3=3 11 hcp and xxxx in spades, we would either pass or bid 1N, esp. if nv.

 

However a 1D opener promises 5+ unless some 4441, and we open almost all balanced 11 counts, so we’d bid 2D. Our 1N is 14-16 so this hand is a long way from a game