pescetom Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Sir,we alert all our conventional bids at any level of bidding.We do play the 'serious 3NT bid' as also the '4NT bypass' and we alert those too.As my Dad says "The rules are there.But still, there is no harm if one alerts ALWAYS.It is not illegal isn't it ? unless your opponents have asked NOT TO BE ALERTED" I have used the word ALWAYS because we did meet a pair who alerted a bid made after a pause, ,say 4C,when they wanted partner to know that it was a conventional bid and not a natural one.They did not alert the same bid when it was a natural bid.I think that is not honest bridge.(however it is legal as per the rules).---THANKS.I think you are a bit confused about the rules here. The RA may establish that it is an infraction to alert a given conventional call beyond 3nt, or to fail to alert simply because opponents request that. The Laws strictly forbid agreements such as intentional variations in tempo which have a hidden meaning - this is not only illegal but seriously punished if proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 I've never understood the purpose of this! For example, when the bidding goes 1♦-1♠-4♣ and you have to ask "splinter?" if you care, you've also alerted the opps if they've had a mix up.So what? They are legally prohibited from taking any advantage of having been awakened in this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 Sir,we alert all our conventional bids at any level of bidding.We do play the 'serious 3NT bid' as also the '4NT bypass' and we alert those too.As my Dad says "The rules are there.But still, there is no harm if one alerts ALWAYS.It is not illegal isn't it ? unless your opponents have asked NOT TO BE ALERTED" I have used the word ALWAYS because we did meet a pair who alerted a bid made after a pause, ,say 4C,when they wanted partner to know that it was a conventional bid and not a natural one.They did not alert the same bid when it was a natural bid.I think that is not honest bridge.(however it is legal as per the rules).---THANKS. Here the opponents are not permitted to ask a pair not to alert. But it is important to no alert when the RA says you must not. Yes there are ridiculous regulations like not alerting doubles. Still, the situation you mention is a real danger. In the EBU, bids above 3NT are not alerted after the first round of bidding. Recently our opponents bid, unopposed, 1NT-2♣-2♥-4NT (alerted). This was RKCB. Who plays that? I was not inclined to believe them but my partner said to let it go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pescetom Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 Recently our opponents bid, unopposed, 1NT-2♣-2♥-4NT (alerted). This was RKCB. Who plays that? I was not inclined to believe them but my partner said to let it goI wouldn't automatically disbelieve them. If obliged to play a traditional Stayman I would play 4NT as quantitative and 3♠/4♣/4♦ as control-bids fixing hearts as trumps, but without some similar fit-showing forcing bid I can't see what responder with slam interest can do unless they agree to play his 4NT as RKCB. I seem to remember that some people play a jump in the other major as artificial fit-showing forcing, but that's already too sophisticated for many partnerships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 I wouldn't automatically disbelieve them. If obliged to play a traditional Stayman I would play 4NT as quantitative and 3♠/4♣/4♦ as control-bids fixing hearts as trumps, but without some similar fit-showing forcing bid I can't see what responder with slam interest can do unless they agree to play his 4NT as RKCB. I seem to remember that some people play a jump in the other major as artificial fit-showing forcing, but that's already too sophisticated for many partnerships. It’s not always a jump in the other major; 3♥ over 2♠ is not a jump. This is pretty much standard here, but the opponents In question were not strong players. Anyway, you could just bid your better minor, as that would at least force to game. Or something; I don’t know. Just... something else. Maybe they were not playing 2-way 4NT. It just seemed a little uspicious that the guy alerted, when no one, and I mean absolutely no one, alerts here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Tu Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 Why would you not believe them? Weaker, less experienced players are precisely the people for whom 4nt is always blackwood, and at the same time may not know alerting regulations thoroughly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pescetom Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 It’s not always a jump in the other major; 3♥ over 2♠ is not a jump. This is pretty much standard here, but the opponents In question were not strong players. Anyway, you could just bid your better minor, as that would at least force to game. Or something; I don’t know. Just... something else. Maybe they were not playing 2-way 4NT. It just seemed a little uspicious that the guy alerted, when no one, and I mean absolutely no one, alerts here. I would play 3♥ over 2♠ as natural 4-card ♥ inviting slam, leaving 4♥ as artificial fit-showing inviting slam (if I can't play it as control-bid). A minor would be 5+cards game forcing. Like Stephen I would assume first that they are hardwired 4NT bidders and little else. But if it looks suspicious then certainly call Director. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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