One for the road?

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=SK62HQJ743Dj876CA&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1C(ART Strong)P1S(ART 3 controls)P2HP3H(NAT Extras !H honour)P3S(CUE)P4C(CUE)X4D(CUE)P4S(CUE)P5HP?]133|200|

Match-pointed pairs.

Your call?

[/hv]

[Cyberyeti]

Cue bidding style ?

[nige1]

Cue bidding style ?

 

I don't know but I think it's a Blue-Club auction.

I;m sorry I've posted it to the wrong forum :(

Please would a moderator move it to Non-natural bidding discussion :)

[pescetom]

I don't know but I think it's a Blue-Club auction.

If it's neapolitan style and without turbo then I would bid 6C, which is not on your list.

[FelicityR]

Italian club systems, strong club systems, whatever the partnership is playing, you have to trust the opener who is usually in charge of the auction. So pass for me. (Which I concede is probably wrong because if all the cues are first round controls as opposed to singletons, 6♥ looks on.)

 

However, when West doubles 4♣ have the partnership got any other bids available other than another cue bid? [This theme crops up again on the forum] How about a forcing pass, and South being able to redouble to show first round control? Or even better a 4♣ splinter after 2♥, West doubles again, North passes and South redoubles automatically showing the ♣A.

[Cyberyeti]

I don't know but I think it's a Blue-Club auction.

I;m sorry I've posted it to the wrong forum :(

Please would a moderator move it to Non-natural bidding discussion :)

 

The auction is pretty natural, that's not an issue.

 

You have massive extras, but no idea (and have given little idea) of what the controls are, partner probably knows you have an ace and a king, but no idea about your shape.

 

I presume you don't splinter with a stiff ace, otherwise this would have given partner a clue (and that when you subsequently cue spades that that is the K not a stiff).

 

Partner appears to be missing the minor suit Ks (or if he has the ♦K he's missing the A) so I'd bet he has ♠A, ♥AK, ♦A (or K) and not a singleton in either minor (I don't know if he'd bid 5♦ with a stiff ace). He also thinks that opposite ♥Q and 3 controls a slam is possible but not guaranteed.

 

Presumably he's also not 5332 or would not have kicked off with 2♥ ?

 

It's a bit of a crap shoot, I think I'd probably bid 6♥, but not be surprised if it went off.

[Cyberyeti]

Italian club systems, strong club systems, whatever the partnership is playing, you have to trust the opener who is usually in charge of the auction. So pass for me. (Which I concede is probably wrong because if all the cues are first round controls as opposed to singletons, 6♥ looks on.)

 

However, when West doubles 4♣ have the partnership got any other bids available other than another cue bid? [This theme crops up again on the forum] How about a forcing pass, and South being able to redouble to show first round control? Or even better a 4♣ splinter after 2♥, West doubles again, North passes and South redoubles automatically showing the ♣A.

 

I presumed XX = first round club control, P = 2nd, 4♦ denies a club control

[etha]

I seem to have quite a lot of extras and pard has nothing in clubs.

[pescetom]

Italian club systems, strong club systems, whatever the partnership is playing, you have to trust the opener who is usually in charge of the auction. So pass for me. (Which I concede is probably wrong because if all the cues are first round controls as opposed to singletons, 6♥ looks on).

The opener's 5H is not sign off here, he's simply saying that we can't go on unless you have something not yet shown. And as cyberyeti said, he already indicated a reason for concern by ignoring the double - he lacks second level clubs control, and you have it, so show it.

[rmnka447]

The opener's 5H is not sign off here, he's simply saying that we can't go on unless you have something not yet shown. And as cyberyeti said, he already indicated a reason for concern by ignoring the double - he lacks second level clubs control, and you have it, so show it.

 

Doesn't opener have other bids available to check for a further ♣ control? 4 NT might be available as DI 4 NT to show further slam interest asking for any additional feature and act as a waiting bid. Also, a further ♦ cue could do the same thing if 4 NT would be some A asking bid.

 

The original response showed 3 controls, that is, an A and K or 3 Ks. Certainly, that doesn't preclude black suit shortness somewhere. Maybe opener needs to allow for that possibility.

[HardVector]

I would have taken charge after the 4d cuebid, that way you are not guessing at this point.

[nekthen]

5♥ seems like a sign off to me. Surely we have set hearts as trumps already. While I agree 6 looks to be there on the bidding, partner had 4N available which would give a chance to cue bid again. Yes we have the Q♥ but suppose p needs ♦ control?

 

[hv=pc=n&n=saq2hak754dk63c32]133|100[/hv]

 

This seems compatible with the bidding

[maartenxq]

Partner seems not to have club control and AK of ♦. So hearts and ♠ must be solid and we can probably afford 1 ♦ loser. We could also loose a ♠, but i will take the risk.

 

Maarten Baltussen

[pescetom]

Doesn't opener have other bids available to check for a further ♣ control? 4 NT might be available as DI 4 NT to show further slam interest asking for any additional feature and act as a waiting bid. Also, a further ♦ cue could do the same thing if 4 NT would be some A asking bid.

Not in any mainstream Italian stye of control-bidding - no other bid is necessary and things are complicated enough as it is :)

More likely variations on the present auction would be for South to bid 3NT over 3♠ showing (more economically) that he too controls spades, or for South's 5♥ to also show an odd number of key cards (otherwise he would have bid 4NT).

[Cyberyeti]

5♥ seems like a sign off to me. Surely we have set hearts as trumps already. While I agree 6 looks to be there on the bidding, partner had 4N available which would give a chance to cue bid again. Yes we have the Q♥ but suppose p needs ♦ control?

 

[hv=pc=n&n=saq2hak754dk63c32]133|100[/hv]

 

This seems compatible with the bidding

 

Not sure it is, that hand should show as a balanced 16 not a heart suit.

[fourdad]

[hv=pc=n&s=SK62HQJ743Dj876CA&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1C(ART Strong)P1S(ART 3 controls)P2HP3H(NAT Extras !H honour)P3S(CUE)P4C(CUE)X4D(CUE)P4S(CUE)P5HP?]133|200|

Match-pointed pairs.

Your call?

[/hv]

 

change bidding systems should be one of the options. :)

[msjennifer]

This is like Blue team club auction.My bid is 5NT. Bid 7 if you have both AK of hearts. North could easily have passed 4Cx if he did not have the DA.OR he could just have retreated to 4H.Where are his 17+HCP required for his opening 1C bid? He is certainly showing a better than a minimum hand.by his 4D cue.This bid together with his 5H bid .knowing fully well that I have one honour in hearts.I feel he is worried about club losers in his hand .From the bidding N knows that S has SK)there is no splinter used ) and CA and can not have any thing more as 1S bid has SPECIFICALLY shown 3 controls._May be he has AQx-AKxxxx-AK-xx OR Ax-AKxxxx-AKQ-xx.( If they do not play RKC after 2Cues .) OR AQxx-AKxxx-AK-xx .

[nige1]

The point of interest in this topic is that partner hesitated before bidding 5♥.

There are now 24 votes and 7 voted to pass 5♥.

See the BridgeWinners topic:

What is the correct TD decision and why

[msjennifer]

The point of interest in this topic is that partner hesitated before bidding 5♥.

There are now 24 votes and 7 voted to pass 5♥.

See the BridgeWinners topic:

What is the correct TD decision and why

Sirs you have asked about action to be taken by TD ,I believe there was no screen used.If the TD was called before S bid then obviously TD shall ask the bidding to proceed and if he decides that S bid as if there was no pause and also, as is available information about the NS system and development, the bid that S makes is correct then he should allow the bid to be legal.However ,if he decides that South has even say 20 pc.chance for getting influenced and taken a decision pass or bid based upon a conclusion drawn from the pause he may disallow the pass or bid. The score may then be adjusted accordingly and the sides permitted to appeal against his decision.Sir,pardon me please but, this is what I, with my limited knowledge, feel.

[nige1]

Sirs you have asked about action to be taken by TD ,I believe there was no screen used.If the TD was called before S bid then obviously TD shall ask the bidding to proceed and if he decides that S bid as if there was no pause and also, as is available information about the NS system and development, the bid that S makes is correct then he should allow the bid to be legal.However ,if he decides that South has even say 20 pc.chance for getting influenced and taken a decision pass or bid based upon a conclusion drawn from the pause he may disallow the pass or bid. The score may then be adjusted accordingly and the sides permitted to appeal against his decision.Sir,pardon me please but, this is what I, with my limited knowledge, feel.

At the table, 6♥ was bid and made. Defenders called the director who rolled the contract back to 5♥. Few considered MsJennifer's point: that it's unclear what the break in tempo suggests.

[pescetom]

The point of interest in this topic is that partner hesitated before bidding 5♥.

There are now 24 votes and 7 voted to pass 5♥.

See the BridgeWinners topic:

What is the correct TD decision and why

 

With all due respect to Kit, Richard Fleet and others, it is apparent that in this discussion only Barry Rogoff and David Burn have any idea of the methods. East may have taken undue time to arrive at 5♥, but he had no other choice (given his lack of certainty about second level control of clubs, as expressed by his ignoring the double), just as pass was not an LA for West (who has the desired second level control of clubs and knows that his 4♠ cannot have caused partner to mysteriously lose the interest that his 4♦ continued to show). I guess it could be argued that UI suggests 6♣ rather than 6♥, but that seems rather academic and in any case West chose the latter.

[Cyberyeti]

At the table, 6♥ was bid and made. Defenders called the director who rolled the contract back to 5♥. Few considered MsJennifer's excellent point: that it's unclear what the break in tempo suggests.

 

This is the crux of the decision, but whatever he was thinking about, it was by definition more encouraging than bidding 5♥ (I think ANYTHING else is), so I would rule it back (and with the hesitation would pass 5♥)

[paulg]

Many people seem to think that you have significant extras on this auction, but I suspect that, at the table, you would have thought you showed these with the 4♠ cue bid.

 

You've already promised three controls and 'extra' values with the 3♥ bid. Going above game means that you have even more extras and you'd be happy to pass a quick 5♥ call from partner, saying things like partner has denied real interest because they have not bid 4NT (whatever it means) or cue bid 5♦.

 

So it's a very simple ruling to disallow 6♥ after the break in tempo.