Walddk Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 At IMPs you hold ♠K10954♥Q8♦AQJ2♣J9 The bidding goes (you first): 1♠ - 2♣2♦ - 2♥?? 2/1 or Standard, doesn't matter. 4th suit is GF according to your agreement. What do you bid now and why? Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 2NT Bidding out shape and scattered//non concentrated HCP, not stoppers. Expect this to be minority poll view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 I voted for 2NT as well. Hopefully my HQ could help to contribute one stopper (face Jxx, for example), or even 2nd stopper (face Axx or Kxx). 2S is my second choice, but ♠s are not good enough. If HQ were SQ, I would choose 2S over 2NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 At IMPs you hold ♠K10954♥Q8♦AQJ2♣J9 The bidding goes (you first): 1♠ - 2♣2♦ - 2♥?? 2/1 or Standard, doesn't matter. 4th suit is GF according to your agreement. What do you bid now and why? Roland2NT mainly because bidding ANYTHING else would be a lie :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 I'm afraid it actually matters whether we play 2/1 or standard. If 3♦ or 3♣ from responder would not have been forcing, responder may have some hand that wanted to bid either 3♦ or 3♣ forcing. This makes 2NT less attractive (though not necesarilly wrong) since responder is in principle asking for a full heart stop. If we play 2/1, responder probably has a ballanced hand so the heart stop is more likely to be sufficient. It may not be, but 2NT may be the only way to right-side 3NT if responder has Axx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Without revealing what my choice would be (could be 2NT, who knows), I'd like to ask all the 2NT bidders: In the post-mortem after the opponents have cashed their 5 heart tricks against 3NT, how are you going to explain to your partner that you thought Qx was a stopper? Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 If we play 2/1, responder probably has a ballanced hand so the heart stop is more likely to be sufficient. It may not be, but 2NT may be the only way to right-side 3NT if responder has Axx. Why a balanced hand? He could have anything. Slam interest with 3 spades, 4 diamonds and own (club) suit. He could of course be balanced with or without a heart stopper (maybe too good for 3NT if he has one), or he could be semi-balanced, 2245 and a minimum, where he is looking for NT rather than a diamond game or slam contract. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Without revealing what my choice would be (could be 2NT, who knows), I'd like to ask all the 2NT bidders: In the post-mortem after the opponents have cashed their 5 heart tricks against 3NT, how are you going to explain to your partner that you thought Qx was a stopper? Roland It is quite unlikely given the bid. Pd must have exactly 2335 for that to happen. And he has no HJ. However, in that case 3N might be the only game. It is possible for the opening leader to underlead from AKxxx. 2N is not ideal, but definitely least of evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Two options: 1. 3H, asking pard for a little help in hearts to bid 3NT2. A straight 3NT (2NT should show a stronger hand since 2H was game-forcing). In an experienced partnership, I might try 1. Otherwise 2 is the obvious bid. Oh.. and pls stop arguing about stoppers :) Stoppers only make sense if opps bid a suit, and even then it's not clear you should worry about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Oh.. and pls stop arguing about stoppers :) Stoppers only make sense if opps bid a suit, and even then it's not clear you should worry about them. I am sure partner will be understanding next time we tell him: "OK, I went 2 down in 3NT, but why would I care about stoppers? Our system is not good enough to find out". Pathetic. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 2♠ : waiting bid : no 5♦, no stopper, no 3♣, not necessary 6♠ and I cannot understand 2NT (I want to keep my partner ! :) ) Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 2S, the default rebid,denying heart stopper, 3 card support for clubs, denying 6-5. This of coures is a matter of partnership aggreement, some partnerships play, that 2S shows a 6 card suit, so they will need to bid 3D instead. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 and I cannot understand 2NT (I want to keep my partner ! ;) ) I agree, altough, I would have used the word "insane"to describe 2 NT.The only sane explanantion for 2NT would be, the guydoes not know Fourth Suit Forcing,in other words, heshould start with beginner lesson XX again. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Why a balanced hand? He could have anything. I'll quote the Bidding Quizes from you team-mate Mike: "Never fake a new suit when you have a non-confusing alternative". So partner rates to have a 2335, either with doubt about the heart stop or he wants you to declare. It possible that he has something else but then he won't raise 2NT to 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 If we play 2/1, responder probably has a ballanced hand so the heart stop is more likely to be sufficient. It may not be, but 2NT may be the only way to right-side 3NT if responder has Axx. Why a balanced hand? He could have anything. Slam interest with 3 spades, 4 diamonds and own (club) suit. He could of course be balanced with or without a heart stopper (maybe too good for 3NT if he has one), or he could be semi-balanced, 2245 and a minimum, where he is looking for NT rather than a diamond game or slam contract. Roland Maybe, but all players I have played 2/1 with would rather show their shape immediately by bidding 2 or 3♠ with 3 spades, 3♦ with 4 diamonds, and 3♣ with six clubs. I didn't switch from SAYC to 2/1 to keep inventing forcing bids when I have natural forcing bids available. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 I'll quote the Bidding Quizes from you team-mate Mike: "Never fake a new suit when you have a non-confusing alternative". So partner rates to have a 2335, either with doubt about the heart stop or he wants you to declare. Another topic I am going to discuss with Mike Lawrence next week ;) We will get some time after the match when Liz McGowan (CuttySark), one of our regular commentators, is having a reception at the venue in Edinburgh, Scotland. She turns 60. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Without revealing what my choice would be (could be 2NT, who knows), I'd like to ask all the 2NT bidders: In the post-mortem after the opponents have cashed their 5 heart tricks against 3NT, how are you going to explain to your partner that you thought Qx was a stopper? RolandDisasters happen, and this may well be one of them, but I voted for 2NT as well. Not that I don't care for stoppers, I usually do, but now I expect partner to has Ax or better yet Axx in hearts. Suddenly my half stopper counts, but only if I bid 2NT to make it right sided. Petko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackojack Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Is pd trying to right side the contract with H Axx, or looking for half a stop with Jxx? Or has pd got 4 diamonds and is looking for a possible slam (4th suit then delayed support = slam interest). Certainly pd with 2236 and no stop would have bid 3C not 2H. So 2NT must be right. btw in my book 2S would imply a 6-card suit. Only with something like AKJ10x, xx, KJxx, xx or even AKJ10x, xxx, KJxx. x would I consider now rebidding the spades with a 5-card suit. Re bidding 3NT: Is it a general view that 3NT could be weaker than 2NT if the FSF bid is a GF? Is it the opposite if FSF is forcing to 2NT? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 I don't see why 3C hasn't been mentioned. YOu've been forced to do something, and if you would usually raise 2C to 3C with 3 card support, I don't see why you're promising more support than this. Partner can bid 3H on the next round to ask for half a stop, should he want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Oh.. and pls stop arguing about stoppers ;) Stoppers only make sense if opps bid a suit, and even then it's not clear you should worry about them. I am sure partner will be understanding next time we tell him: "OK, I went 2 down in 3NT, but why would I care about stoppers? Our system is not good enough to find out". Pathetic. Roland I'll worry about that when it happens. Meanwhile I keep bidding NT and making my games. Also, I'd appreciate if you stop calling my opinions "pathetic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Is pd trying to right side the contract with H Axx, or looking for half a stop with Jxx? If he is interested in an half stopper, he can askagain with 3H. I am not going to guess, what partners intentionare, I just answer the question. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 I bid 2♠ showing "nothing worth mentioning". If partner insists with 3♥ I bid 3NT and expect to make it. If he cannot bid NT or 3♥ himself we have to look for alternative games like 4♠ in 5-2 fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 I'll worry about that when it happens. Meanwhile I keep bidding NT and making my games. Hopefully your partner alerts your call with the words,he may or may not have a heart stopper. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 No alert required. The bid shows willingness to play NT and is therefore not alertable. At least not where I play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Re bidding 3NT: Is it a general view that 3NT could be weaker than 2NT if the FSF bid is a GF? Is it the opposite if FSF is forcing to 2NT? ;) Playing 2/1, 3NT would be 15-17. 2NT would be 12-14 or 18-19. Same applies to responder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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