STOP card used out of turn

[pran]

10 seconds is a really long time when nothing is happening. In a normal situation, you'd probably think that they didn't notice that it's their turn to bid.

That's the point, isn't it?

I don't think so.

Nobody here really bothers whether the STOP pause is ended after maybe only 5, possibly 8 or even 10 seconds.

 

The point is that the skip bidder should dictate a pause sufficiently long to avoid any UI being revealed by the time LHO needs to decide his call.

For the same reason it is the skip bidder and not his LHO who controls the timing.

 

Our experience with STOP is utterly positive.

[blackshoe]

The point is why should the skip bidder get to decide how long is long enough if the regulation says 10 seconds. It seems to me that if "most people" think 5 seconds is plenty, the regulation should be changed.

[Vampyr]

The point is why should the skip bidder get to decide how long is long enough if the regulation says 10 seconds. It seems to me that if "most people" think 5 seconds is plenty, the regulation should be changed.

 

You can sing a song in your head to count 10 seconds. For example, if you sing When I’m 64 you will get to 10 seconds after the word “Valentine”.

 

LOL don’t be jealous that every other country has a sensible STOP procedure, as opposed to none, and that it works very well everywhere.

[Vampyr]

 

10 seconds is a really long time when nothing is happening. In a normal situation, you'd probably think that they didn't notice that it's their turn to bid.

 

Or that they DID notice that the STOP card is still being displayed.

[pescetom]

 

LOL don’t be jealous that every other country has a sensible STOP procedure, as opposed to none, and that it works very well everywhere.

I think that is an overbid. Italy still has the STOP card but it works pretty poorly here, like most rules that aren't strictly enforced and or of glaringly obvious necessity. Norway is clearly more disciplined and aware, I suspect most countries will be somewhere inbetween.

[weejonnie]

The point is why should the skip bidder get to decide how long is long enough if the regulation says 10 seconds. It seems to me that if "most people" think 5 seconds is plenty, the regulation should be changed.

5 seconds IS plenty - provided you have nothing to think about. It is when you DO have something to think about that you need more time.

 

However 10 seconds is arbitrary. I usually find that if I need time then I need more than 10 seconds. I think one of the main advantages of the STOP card is that it stops 'insta-calls' i.e. the ones where someone thinks their call is obvious. e.g. 1♠ - 3♥ - 3♠ (at SPEOL). The main advantage, however, is that it stops players making insufficient bids because they have mentally worked out the bid they are going to make and then make it automatically.

[pran]

5 seconds IS plenty - provided you have nothing to think about. It is when you DO have something to think about that you need more time.

 

However 10 seconds is arbitrary. I usually find that if I need time then I need more than 10 seconds. I think one of the main advantages of the STOP card is that it stops 'insta-calls' i.e. the ones where someone thinks their call is obvious. e.g. 1♠ - 3♥ - 3♠ (at SPEOL). The main advantage, however, is that it stops players making insufficient bids because they have mentally worked out the bid they are going to make and then make it automatically.

I suspect that when the Norwegian authority had to settle for a specific time they based their decision from some 50 years experience with bridge competitions.

 

Remember that a time limit like this must be set so high that very few players should ever need more time when deciding their call following a surprise call from RHO.

[axman]

If LHO actually has something to think about, he'll use the required time for his thinking. He doesn't need to measure the time. It's not like it has to be exactly 10 seconds, since no one is holding a stop-watch to him.

 

If he doesn't have anything to think about, it shouldn't be hard for him to measure the time while pretending to think.

 

In my experience, players never take the full 10 seconds. Most players don't pause at all (and they didn't when STOP cards were used, either); the ones who do just pause for about 4-5 seconds I think. This is long enough to be noticeably slower than normal tempo.

 

10 seconds is a really long time when nothing is happening. In a normal situation, you'd probably think that they didn't notice that it's their turn to bid.

I doubt that I am in your experience. I do not attempt to 'mentally' keep track of the length of my pause. I do aim for a 12 sec pause (my experience is that it has the effect of reducing dramatically the length of the pauses of the other three). Thus I am usually at least 10 sec and rarely as much as 15 sec. It can be said that my skip bid pause does not burden me while benefitting all the players.

[barmar]

That's the point, isn't it?

I'm not sure.

 

If someone really has a hard decision, I think they'll take more than 10 seconds, and you can usually tell that they're stuck (they fidget, furrow their brow, etc.).

 

If someone doesn't have anything to think about, making them pause 10 seconds doesn't remove the UI, unless you think the fact that 10 seconds seems like an eternity allows it to be mistaken for the above tank.

 

You would be correct if they can usually decide what to do in less than 10 seconds. In that case, forcing them to take 10 seconds every time removes the UI. This assumes they're also able to mask the difference in mannerisms. I try to do things like tilt my head to give the impression of decision-making, but I'm sure it's an obvious fake; I have no idea what I do when I'm actually thinking, because I'm too busy thinking to monitor my behavior.

[barmar]

I know I'm partially to blame, but we should probably put a stop to this tangent.

 

Every thread that involves some irregularity in procedure related to the STOP card inevitably turns into a discussion of the merits of the STOP card and each country's regulations of it. It's always the same arguments, no new light is ever shone.

[gordontd]

I know I'm partially to blame, but we should probably put a stop to this tangent.

 

Every thread that involves some irregularity in procedure related to the STOP card inevitably turns into a discussion of the merits of the STOP card and each country's regulations of it. It's always the same arguments, no new light is ever shone.

If we had a ban on using the words "ACBL", "Norway" and "Stop" in any combination, this wouldn't happen.

[barmar]

If we had a ban on using the words "ACBL", "Norway" and "Stop" in any combination, this wouldn't happen.

I'll look into updating the censored word list :)