15-17 NT

[Dinarius]

Not exactly rocket science, but opinions do vary...

 

Playing 15-17 NT...

 

1. What point count do you require to bid Stayman?

2. What point count do you require to respond an immediate 2NT?

3. How much does texture (spot cards) and shape influence you?

4. Do vary any of the above whether you're playing IMPs or MPs?

5. Any other comments?

 

Thanks.

 

D.

[DozyDom]

1. 8+

2. 8-9 if I'm playing it as natural; nothing if it's a minor transfer.

3. A lot.

4. I'll be more likely to force game with a good 9 count at teams; more likely to pass with a poor 8-count at pairs.

 

I think this is what most people would say if asked.

[pescetom]

1. What point count do you require to bid Stayman?

 

Zero if we play a 3-reply Stayman and I have an appropriate hand (majors and diamonds, majors only if it has a Crawling option, diamonds if it is a true Puppet).

[DozyDom]

1. 8+

2. 8-9 if I'm playing it as natural; nothing if it's a minor transfer.

3. A lot.

4. I'll be more likely to force game with a good 9 count at teams; more likely to pass with a poor 8-count at pairs.

 

I think this is what most people would say if asked.

Whoops - I should have said 8+ if I'm bidding it constructively, which is what I guessed you meant. Natch you can bid it with anything you like so long as you're good with partner's reply.

[Dinarius]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I tend towards a good 8 at IMPs, 9 at MPs, for an immediate 2NT.

 

A good 8 in both cases for Stayman. I think that the possibility of a 4/4 outweighs having to play 2NT with 15 opposite 8.

 

D.

[BillPatch]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I tend towards a good 8 at IMPs, 9 at MPs, for an immediate 2NT.

 

A good 8 in both cases for Stayman. I think that the possibility of a 4/4 outweighs having to play 2NT with 15 opposite 8.

 

D.

Good rules for MP, and NV at IMPs. Vulnerable at IMPs you want to force to game with almost all 9 HCP hands, and invite with even poor 8's..

As noted by Richard Pavlicek in www.rpavlicek.net(look in index for Odds and Probability, that subindex for Optimal IMP Strategy), Vulnerable at IMPs, If NT is right, It is better to bid game with a total of 24 HCPs if you are already above one, and always bid game with 25. With the NT openers, accept a NT invite with most of the same hands(all 16s and 17s, and most good 15s). Upgrade just slightly fewer 15s(about .1 points more strength required).

[msjennifer]

Sir,the Question asked is how many points are required to make a STAYMAN bid opposite a 15/17 NT. My personal opinion is a good 8+HCP.THESE DAYS a tendency has crept in to use GARBAGE STAYMAN even with zero (as one can not have any less than that) HCP.There are more varieties likeCRAWLING STAYMAN and EXTENDED STAYMAN, Stayman used in conjunction with JACOBY TRANSFERS and the SMOLEN convention.I ,personally do not like the garbage variety invented BASICALLY to fool the opponents although there are a few advantages in it if one is playing with a REGULAR partner and it is futile to use it in BBO and other tournaments where you got to play with different unknown partners.By the way it was not Stayman who devised the convention under his name.Stayman described it in 1945.But the ideas behind that were two others the British JACK MARX in 1939 and Staymans partner GEORGE RAPEE in 1944. The distribution of HCP in different suits has most impoortance and so do the singletons /voids.One has to adopt LEBENSOHL or similar treatments to be used if opponents intervene.More information may please be obtained from books on NO TRUMP BIDDING IN BRIDGE,

[philip1099]

Sacrilege I know, but try dropping Stayman.

 

Gives too much information away for no net gain over the long term. NT often plays better even with a 4-4 fit. Try 2♣ = both majors so you won't miss all the major fits. Build your system on reducing declarer disclosure.

 

There will be little support for my argument, but it works :)

[Vampyr]

Sacrilege I know, but try dropping Stayman.

 

Gives too much information away for no net gain over the long term. NT often plays better even with a 4-4 fit. Try 2♣ = both majors so you won't miss all the major fits. Build your system on reducing declarer disclosure.

 

There will be little support for my argument, but it works :)

 

This idea is quite strange, but it you choose to use it you may try using 3♣ as 5-card (not puppet) Stayman so you find the 5-4 and 5-3 fits.

 

Referring to another post above, using Stayman for 0+ HCP hands is not for the purpose of fooling opponents, but is used to avoid going for a big number in 1NT even undoubted. This is especially important when playing weak NT.

[Vampyr]

Sacrilege I know, but try dropping Stayman.

 

Gives too much information away for no net gain over the long term. NT often plays better even with a 4-4 fit. Try 2♣ = both majors so you won't miss all the major fits. Build your system on reducing declarer disclosure.

 

There will be little support for my argument, but it works :)

 

This idea is quite strange, but it you choose to use it you may try using 3♣ as 5-card (not puppet) Stayman so you find the 5-4 and 5-3 fits.

 

Referring to another post above, using Stayman for 0+ HCP hands is not for the purpose of fooling opponents, but is used to avoid going for a big number in 1NT even undoubted. This is especially important when playing weak NT.

[PhilG007]

Not exactly rocket science, but opinions do vary...

 

Playing 15-17 NT...

 

1. What point count do you require to bid Stayman?

2. What point count do you require to respond an immediate 2NT?

3. How much does texture (spot cards) and shape influence you?

4. Do vary any of the above whether you're playing IMPs or MPs?

5. Any other comments?

 

Thanks.

 

D.

 

1.You don't really need a point count to operate Stayman. Partner opens 1NT (15-17) and you hold ♠xxxx ♥xxxx♦xxxx♣x If you pass,partner is going to be very hard put to

it to make the contract. Bid 2♣ Stayman and pass any response.

2.9+pts

3. In NT I regard the middle cards as vital. 10s and 9s take tricks 3s and 2s don't K1098x is quite a decent suit and may well take more than 1 trick whereas Kxxxx is a King heading a load of rubbish.

A long minor suit would also be regarded as a plus value if there is a chance it can be established.

 

4.No

[msjennifer]

Sacrilege I know, but try dropping Stayman.

 

Gives too much information away for no net gain over the long term. NT often plays better even with a 4-4 fit. Try 2♣ = both majors so you won't miss all the major fits. Build your system on reducing declarer disclosure.

 

There will be little support for my argument, but it works :)

SIR,there is a slightly better treatment given in the EXPLORER relay of 2C which is made on a hand with at least one 4+ major suit and 8+HCP..Opener replies 2D with 15/bad16 HCP with /without a major.The responder with 8/BAD9 HCP then bids his major and opener holding support passes or with no fit and with a 4+Spade suit bids 2S (Over responders 2H bid.Without these he bids 2NT.If over openers 2D responder wants to force a game he bids 3C(extended relay)and opener bids SUITS UP THE LINE(AS IN BARON) IF opener has both 4 card majors then over 2C relay he bids 2H with 15/bad16 AND bids 2S with 16 good /17 HCP.This relay has helped us to play a deal in 2H/S instead of 3H/S(going one down) with the normal invitational Stayman sequence,The 3C extended relay has helped us in not missing minor suit slams with 4-4 fit. NOTE-The above is only a part of the Explorer relay which I have described for finding out major suit fits.As also this method does not apply if the 1NT opening is permissible with a 5 card major unless one incorporates precisions trump suit asking bids eg 2H-3H OR 2S-3S..With a hand holding 16 good or 17 HCPand any 4333 pattern(D may be 5 cards) Opener bids 2NT and then a 3C relay bid asks the opener to show his four card suit ,with 3NT bid used to show the C suit and 3334 .Lastly with 16 good/17HCP and a 5 card C suit and any 332 pattern opener jumps to 3NT over the 2C relay.The entire Gamut is practically covered for investigating NT openers hand for HCP range as well as suit lengths.

[thepossum]

1. What point count do you require to bid Stayman?

 

Could be almost anything depending on what you regard as the possible contracts

 

 

2. What point count do you require to respond an immediate 2NT?

 

Well if you reckon you can get to game with a total of 22-24+ (depending on shape), and partner has 15-17, work it out from there whether to leave in 1NT or raise to 2NT. Note I have gone to game (not directly) on a total of 20 or fewer points. It depends on your hand. But depending on how partner treats quantitatives I am careful.

 

3. How much does texture (spot cards) and shape influence you?

A lot. I couldnt paramterise it but its about the look and feel of the hand and whether you upgrade or downgrade

 

4. Do vary any of the above whether you're playing IMPs or MPs?

I vary all bidding depending on all parameters including type of scoirng, stage of tournament, how Ive been going earlier, whether I need a game or not to do well, how I think everyone else will bid

 

5. Any other comments?

I think everyone's comments above make sense to me

 

Edit. And of course everything also is adjusted and depends on my partner, their style, and our agreements and understandings

 

Thanks.

 

D.

 

You are welcome

 

P

[DCal]

Not exactly rocket science, but opinions do vary...

 

Playing 15-17 NT...

 

1. What point count do you require to bid Stayman?

2. What point count do you require to respond an immediate 2NT?

3. How much does texture (spot cards) and shape influence you?

4. Do vary any of the above whether you're playing IMPs or MPs?

5. Any other comments?

 

Thanks.

 

D.

 

1. Normally, I would have to have seven or more, but that depends on my distribution. For example, holding XXX=XXXX=XXXXX=XX, or thereabouts I would bid 2C and pass. On the other hand with something like JXXX=XXXX=XX=XXX, I would pass. Normally, though, I would want enough values to rebid 2NT if I bid Stayman and partner bid 2D or two of the "wrong major."

 

2. I must have pretty close to nine. Eight HCP with some helpful intermediates. A hand that, besides eight HCP, should have something better than three queens and two jacks. A hand with some helpful distribution (a good five-card suit, e.g.) or a hand containing five or six T's or 9's.

My experience has been that two no trump is almost always a wretched contract, so I should have extras to help opener if he has a minimum opener.

 

3. I think this question has been answered in two.

 

4. I tend to view my eight hcp's a little more optimistically at imps, since we only need a forty per cent chance to bid game.

At MP's, I will pass without a good eight as described above. I tend to make transfers with most five-card suits if I am weak in addition to hands with invitational or game-forcing values. Of course, at matchpoints alll of these comments can vary according to "table feel," contested or uncontested auctions, and status in the game.