mr1303 Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 [hv=s=sakxxhxxdakqxxcqx]133|100|[/hv] You open it a strong club, and partner responds 1D (negative). You aren't playing a relay system, so partner won't have a nice 7 count with some useful 10s. RHO comes in with 2D. You pass (double would be take-out) and partner bids 3C. What do you do? (3C is not forcing btw) What would you do if 2D meant the majors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 I assume P had the option of bidding 2c or 3c and not 1D to show 6/7 or 7/8 card long weak club suit? So it seems goofy that p can bid 3clubs now with only a 5 card suit and junky 7 hcp? Otherwise change response system. If you do not have way to show AKXXXX and out in any suit change response system. Issue 2) Not mainstream but I love to play double in direct seat here as penalty in the suit bid, not shown. In this case D suit is bid even though majors shown so X shows penalty in Diamonds. Assuming 2D shows majors and I have majors then I would pass or bid NT with extras. If I have long clubs and 18+ I could bid 3clubs here. Note if my LHO runs to 2H or 2S P can double in direct seat for penalty, bid clubs, raise "my Diamonds", bid natural nt or pass. Add on: This kind of confusion on the part of the opp is very common with their artificial overcalls which is why I prefer X by strong club hand in direct seat to be penalty of the bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 3NT. My pass was not forcing so partner must have something. If 2♦ showed the majors I would have doubled showing willingness to double at least one major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 I suppose 2♦ was either a psyche or (more likely) a convention that LHO forgot to alert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_c Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Nice-looking hand, but I really don't see that any game is likely to make. In 3NT I'm expecting that the defence can take four hearts and a club most of the time. The other problem with 3NT is that it doesn't seem possible to arrange for partner to declare it. So I'm passing, although if this is IMPs I'm a bit unhappy. If 2♦ shows the majors, then I'm still not too confident about making game, but it seems that bidding 3♦ now is unlikely to hurt, and will get us to game whenever it's there. We'll probably end up with +130 anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 [hv=s=sakxxhxxdakqxxcqx]133|100|[/hv] You open it a strong club, and partner responds 1D (negative). You aren't playing a relay system, so partner won't have a nice 7 count with some useful 10s. RHO comes in with 2D. You pass (double would be take-out) and partner bids 3C. What do you do? (3C is not forcing btw) What would you do if 2D meant the majors? Comment the first: I plan to pass partner's 3♣ bid. In order for 3NT to be right, partner needs are running club suit and a heart stopper. This is not bloody likely if partner can't make some useful noises over 1♣. Equally significant, partner's "free" 3♣ bid was a balancing bid (presumably) with Diamond shortage. I'm not about to hang partner for balancing. Comment the second: If the 2♦ cue bid showed both majors, then I have a pretty clear 3♦ bid. Most of my strength is in a long Diamond suit which is likely to garnish one trick defending two hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted May 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Yes, the 2D was a convention that LHO forgot to alert, usually because they had no agreement about it. The next part of the story will come tomorrow. It's about to get shocking..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Regardless of what 2D is, you simply pass pard's 3C. Expect to lose 2 hearts and 1-2 clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 So RHO has the majors but LHO will lead a diamond and the clubs finese is marked. We make 7NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 If you do not have way to show AKXXXX and out in any suit change response system. I do nt know whether it is "standard practice", but if I have AKxxx or longer suit and nothing else, I start with a positive response, even if that is supposed to show 8+ hcp. So a 1D response denies any suit headed with AK. ------------------------------------------------------------ A useful agreement might be a good-bad 2NT here, so that we can discriminate whether pard has really something; however, as it is, I do not see a likely 3NT.I think I am going to pass 3C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Yes, the 2D was a convention that LHO forgot to alert, usually because they had no agreement about it. The next part of the story will come tomorrow. It's about to get shocking..... Convention Disruption!Convention Disruption! Pairs who mess up complex defensive methods over our strong club auctions must be taken out and shot as an example to all that simple natural agreements are best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 What's your point, Richard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 What's your point, Richard? Some regulators (Bobby Wolff being the most prominant example) created a concept known as Convention Disruption which they wield as a club against anyone playing methods that they don't approve of... Historically, all the examples of "Convention Disruption" that I've seen have been brought against players using diabolical methods like the multi 2♦. However, from my perspective, the most egregious examples often involve competitive sequences over strong club openings. [Trying getting a decent description regarding what a 1♠ overcall actually shows] I'm merely suggesting that if "Convention Disruption" / Active Ethics is something more that a bully pulpit, then it should be brought to bear in these types of cases... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Next stage: RHO now bids 3H, which LHO now alerts, announcing that 2D showed the majors. You call the director, who's a bit busy at the moment, who tells you to carry on and you end up in 5C doubled, which goes for -1100, as everything breaks horribly. Based on the following auction, how do you rule? 1C P 1D 2DP P 3C 3HP P 3S P4S P P X 5C X end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Result stands. The 3S bid caused the problem. At that stage pard already had the correct info as to what 2D meant, so he was bidding at his own risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 There was a damage because 2♦ was not alerted (with alert opener would dbl for penalty). The bidding would proceed in another way.Next point is the ruling: TD was called after the bid of 3♥ when opp clarified partner's 2♦ overcall (too late!), TD should allow a changing in bidding at that stage and the whole story may have been ending in another way.The further bidding now, after 3♥, is $%/(§$"§$$% ;) ...But I think the score should be adjusted.Caren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestar Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 I would take away offenders good result--had 2D been alerted, it is at least possible that opponents would bid more rationally. Non offenders keep the table result. 3S bidder knew the enemy had the majors when he made this bid--which given that knowlege is of dubious rationality. To me, if it was done by a good player I would suspect a double shot attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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