opening lead - question

[phoenixmj]

[hv=pc=n&e=s973hq98743dt4ct3&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=1n2sp3sppp]133|200|2 spades was natural[/hv]

 

What does east lead against 3 spades and any reasoning?

 

This was MPs.

 

Thanks

[Cyberyeti]

Weak or strong notrump ?

[phoenixmj]

Weak or strong notrump ?

 

strong NT.

[msjennifer]

Sir,the only suit which I can be of any use and where opener very likely can have a honor is hearts.ANY minor suit lead MAY help the declarer by opening up tenace positions,I shall lead the 4th best , as per our leads, the 7 of hearts.A passive trump lead may possibly be suggested by some (who never post in these columns)

[Tramticket]

strong NT.

 

I would probably have bid (2NT Lebensohl).

 

I probably lead a passive trump. A heart lead probably won't do any harm. Either minor suit could be right if partner is able to win a couple and give us a ruff, but it would be a guess and we could be picking up partner's honours. I think I prefer to be more passive here.

[gordontd]

I would probably have bid (2NT Lebensohl).

I think it's common to play that Lebensohl for hearts over spades shows invitational+ values, otherwise it's too hard to bid your games with any precision.

[Cyberyeti]

My inclination is to go for a ruff opposite a strong NT, I'd have led a trump had it been weak.

[msjennifer]

I think it's common to play that Lebensohl for hearts over spades shows invitational+ values, otherwise it's too hard to bid your games with any precision.

Sir.as per the original Lebensohl convention, 2NT bid asks opener to bid 3C which the 2NT bidder passes or corrects to 3D as a sign off .A 3H bid by the 2NT bidder is an invitation to 4H and IS NOT A SIGN OFF.AS such, unless modified ,the 2NT bid can not be used on this hand which has 9 (at least) losers as played in hearts.If the 2NT bid is reserved for indicating a hand with heart suit alone then what about hands with C/D suits.(Remember that we yet do not know that LHO is going to bid 3S which leaves the opener completely in dark as to what is our long suit).Anyhow,leaving all that aside, what does one lead and why is the question posed by the OP.

[msjennifer]

My inclination is to go for a ruff opposite a strong NT, I'd have led a trump had it been weak.

SIR,With all due respect to you ,it is alright if one wishes to go for a ruff in one of the minors.I REQUEST you to kindly let all know which minor will you specifically lead on table ? A club or a A diamond and the reasons therein ?

[msjennifer]

I think it's common to play that Lebensohl for hearts over spades shows invitational+ values, otherwise it's too hard to bid your games with any precision.

Sir,I humbly ask you, if the opponents are silent, would you bid 2D transfer AND THEN RAISE your partners 2H to 3H. In other words does this hand possess enough values to invite a game in Hearts.?

[Cyberyeti]

SIR,With all due respect to you ,it is alright if one wishes to go for a ruff in one of the minors.I REQUEST you to kindly let all know which minor will you specifically lead on table ? A club or a A diamond and the reasons therein ?

 

It's a complete guess, you just pick one, would vary from day to day

[Cyberyeti]

Sir,I humbly ask you, if the opponents are silent, would you bid 2D transfer AND THEN RAISE your partners 2H to 3H. In other words does this hand possess enough values to invite a game in Hearts.?

 

This is exactly the point Gordon is making, it was Tramticket that suggested Lebensohl. Good/bad 2N would work here.

[sfi]

Count me in for a Lebensohl 2NT call (which I've never played as showing an invitational hand in hearts).

 

And I'm leading a minor.

[hrothgar]

Count me in for a Lebensohl 2NT call (which I've never played as showing an invitational hand in hearts).

 

And I'm leading a minor.

 

Not sure if I am looking at the same hand as the rest of you.

 

I suspect that I would lead the 10 of one of my minors hoping for a ruff.

 

Give that I have T4 in one and T3 in the other, I find it difficult to make a compelling case of Diamonds versus Clubs (or vice versa)

[Tramticket]

It's a complete guess, you just pick one, would vary from day to day

 

This is why I am a less keen on the doubleton lead here. A minor may be right - but I think it unlikely that both minors would work well, so you have only a 50:50 chance of finding the right one.

[mikeh]

The auction is a bit weird. RHO appears to have overcalled on a 5 card suit (which is usually a terrible idea unless one is 2- suited, and most people have ways to show 2-suitors)

 

LHO has raised with 3-card support. He ‘should’ have a ruffing value somewhere, probably in hearts, which may duplicate his partner’s shortness, since opener almost surely has 3+ hearts. One normally leads trump on these hands, both as neutral and to try to cut down dummy’s ruffing power. However, while not impossible, I downgrade the need for the latter.

 

All of which is a long-winded way of saying that I’d lead a minor and hope to get lucky. In these cases, I have an arbitrary rule that works 50% of the time (assuming that a minor will work). I lead the stronger suit, hence the 10 from 104.

[Trinidad]

I think it's common to play that Lebensohl for hearts over spades shows invitational+ values, otherwise it's too hard to bid your games with any precision.

I don't doubt that it is common to play that. However, it is also common to have the meta agreement that:

1. 
    
   
2. we would like to show GF hands, competitive hands, and invitational hands.
   
3. when we don't have room to include all of them, the invitational hands are the first to throw out (simply decide to force to game or sign off)
   
4. when we have room for only one of them, the bid is GF, otherwise we pass.
    
   

 

You probably guessed that I would have Lebensohled with the aim to get to 3♥ without any worry that my partner would take it as invitational.

 

Having said all that, I will lead trumps. Like Mike, I expect a singleton heart in dummy.

 

Rik

[Trinidad]

This is why I am a less keen on the doubleton lead here. A minor may be right - but I think it unlikely that both minors would work well, so you have only a 50:50 chance of finding the right one.

So, instead you pick another lead?!?

 

I don't think that the symmetry in the minors should be any argument against leading one. Suppose you hold:

♠Qxx

♥-

♦KQJTx

♣KQJTx

 

Would you lead spades because the minors are equally good?!? Or would you lead a minor, any minor, since it would be better than leading a trump?

 

So, If you decide that a minor lead is the best (I would not), then lead a minor. And if those minors are equal, then you flip a coin. The succes probability of a club lead is not suddenly cut in half, simply because the club holding is (almost) the same as the diamond holding.

 

Rik

[miamijd]

Not to demean the OP, but this is one of those questions that really has no answer. Anything could be right:

 

1. If dummy has short H, a trump might be needed to cut down dummy's ruffing power

 

2. If partner has AK of a minor (or AQ over dummy's K), leading that suit might get us a ruff

 

3. Probably the declarer has only 5 spades. If declarer has the short hearts, it's possible that a H lead can start an effective forcing defense.

 

Flip a coin. I don't know the right answer ex ante, and neither does anyone else.

 

Incidentally, over the 2S overcall, 2NT Leb followed by 3H after the 3C relay is purely competitive (partner should pass), not an invite. There are three levels of hands (competitive, invite, GF), but only two bidding sequences (direct 3H or 2NT first). One of the levels can't be shown. If you elect to distinguish invites from GF hands, you lose the ability to make competitive bids. That is an enormous loss. Much better to upgrade most invites to GF (and downgrade the truly bad invites to competitive).

 

Cheers,

Mike

[dsLawsd]

The ten of diamonds- the most counter-intuitive lead for an unusual auction. Partner figures Not to hold strong clubs here.

All roads lead to a lengthy post mortam?

[arthh]

My choice of opening lead is club ten. My reasoning is that given a choice of equal leads, I choose the weaker one. T3 is weaker than T4.

[joris999]

The lead i dont know, but this hand is a perfect rubensohl bid: 3D and opener must bid 3H.

 

With invitational hand responder starts with 2NT (puppet for 3CL) and bids 3H over 3CL

[phoenixmj]

Hi - thanks so much for all of the feedback. We defended this hand and it was a loser for us. Almost all of the tables wound up in the same contract but most defended better than us - and our lead was the issue. My partner led the 4th best heart - and as you expected, they were short and my memory says that they had first round control. The ten of diamonds was the killer lead - and I wanted to see if others would lead either one of the minors (both doubletons) going for the ruff.

 

at least 2/3 of the room did just that (led the diamond ten) - and I wondered the reasoning. I think it does come down to a guess between diamonds and clubs, but the distribution factor should eliminate the heart guess.

 

Thanks so much.

[thepossum]

Not sure if NT is balanced or semi-balanced and how strong N and S are for their bids but in order

 

C

D (essentially identical to C)

H

S

 

Hoping for 3 or 4 tricks

 

Not much difference between C,D,H but spades seems consistently worst option according to basic sim. It does vary considerably if opener can have a semi-balanced hand

 

As you hope for more tricks the difference between those leads increases

 

But clearly it would help to know more about the meaning of all the bids and how partner would interpret the lead. But its looking like a good old doubleton is best

 

Edit Thats a shame, the "answer" was just posted while I was working it out :)

[miamijd]

Hi - thanks so much for all of the feedback. We defended this hand and it was a loser for us. Almost all of the tables wound up in the same contract but most defended better than us - and our lead was the issue. My partner led the 4th best heart - and as you expected, they were short and my memory says that they had first round control. The ten of diamonds was the killer lead - and I wanted to see if others would lead either one of the minors (both doubletons) going for the ruff.

 

at least 2/3 of the room did just that (led the diamond ten) - and I wondered the reasoning. I think it does come down to a guess between diamonds and clubs, but the distribution factor should eliminate the heart guess.

 

Thanks so much.

 

I don't think the fourth best heart is so bad at all. Let's give your partner the following hand:

 

xx AJxx AQx Axxx

 

Let's give declarer the Kd and dummy the Kx H, with declarer having a stiff H.

 

Now you lead a H, and partner plays the J and Ah. Let's say declarer ruffs the second heart (perhaps not best). Now if he tries to establish a minor suit first, your partner can duck and give you a third round ruff. And if declarer draws trump, your side will end up with control

 

If declarer pitches a minor card at trick two, you just got a trick you wouldn't have gotten if you had led a minor card.

 

As I said, any of the four suits could easily have been right. If the lead was the problem, you just got unlucky. I wonder, however, if the bidding went the same way at all tables. I also wonder what the entire hand was; perhaps there was something you overlooked. I can't imagine 2/3 of expert players leading a diamond (there's nothing wrong with a d lead, but with no standout lead, there's nothing especially right about it, either).

 

Cheers,

mike