Gib returning a suit for your entry

[steve2005]

4H defense

OK I know Gib doesn't read signals so I knew leading a high card wouldn't help getting a spade return so I could give another ruff was a waste of time

But geez I did a takeout double and raised spades surely a spade to my ace seems likely.

 

worst is 2 trick difference as not only no ruff but they can pitch a spade.

[smerriman]

According to your description you have 5 spades, so GIB knows declarer will ruff a spade return.

[steve2005]

According to your description you have 5 spades, so GIB knows declarer will ruff a spade return.

Well that just bad. 3♠ shouldn't promise 5♠

Is there some other bid that shows a hand that wants to compete with 4♠?

[johnu]

According to your description you have 5 spades, so GIB knows declarer will ruff a spade return.

 

If South has 5 spades, he's already shows ♣AK and would have ♠AQJxx for 14 total points. The 3♠ bid shows 13-16 points, so South can't have ♦A which would bring the point count to 18 HCP. There is absolutely zero reason to return a diamond.

 

If a spade return is useless, so is a diamond return.

[BillPatch]

If all lines of defense are useless, GIB gives up. So the miss-definition is fatal. If you were aware of the miss-definition from the description, you should have taken your A of before returning for the setting ruff.

[smerriman]

Well that just bad. 3♠ shouldn't promise 5♠

Is there some other bid that shows a hand that wants to compete with 4♠?

Is there really a hand that wants to compete to 3♠ with a 4-4 fit? GIB loves LOTT; it will compete itself if you pass and it has extra spades.

 

If a spade return is useless, so is a diamond return.

Exactly. It therefore decides both are useless, and chooses one at random.

[BillPatch]

If South has 5 spades, he's already shows ♣AK and would have ♠AQJxx for 14 total points. The 3♠ bid shows 13-16 points, so South can't have ♦A which would bring the point count to 18 HCP. There is absolutely zero reason to return a diamond.

 

If a spade return is useless, so is a diamond return.

Wouldn't a hand with ♠QJxxx and ♦AJx and the same cards in the other suits have the same 14 total points and thus qualify as a likely hand meeting the GIB criteria? So if the spade ace often would not cash the less frequent diamond ace would be the better choice for an entry target according to GIB.

 

Incidentally, I would never make a takeout double at the one level with a 5 card spade suit containing more than 2 HCP. Lawrence in The Complete Book on Takeout Doubles explains this treatment, which I believe is standard among better players in the ACBL. So, if you cannot read the takeout doubler's signal, the spade is clearly the better choice.

[smerriman]

Wouldn't a hand with ♠QJxxx and ♦AJx and the same cards in the other suits have the same 14 total points and thus qualify as a likely hand meeting the GIB criteria?

If South holds 5 spades, they must be exactly AQJ82 - they're the only spades left :)

[johnu]

Exactly. It therefore decides both are useless, and chooses one at random.

 

Who really knows what GIB is doing a lot of the time, but your theory could well be true.

 

If so, it pinpoints a fatal flaw in GIB programming to not include some sort of fuzzy logic instead of 100% black and white rule based assumptions that even the GIB robots routinely ignore. A spade return could never lose a trick if you used fuzzy logic, while a diamond return could.