Penalty (or T/O!!)

[apollo1201]

IMPs, green vs red, partner deals and opens 1D, 3+ cards, 12+ HCP, and you bid a (non GF but almost) 2C with:

 

Kxxx

-

Qx

AKQTxxx

 

LHO bids 2H, partner Xes (penalty),RHO passing again, what now?

 

And if LHO bids 3H, Xed again? I heard some ppl after a jump change the meaning to T/O. Is this standard? I guess you are less likely to hold a trump stack but more likely to be short with a few extra HCP over a preempt vs. a sandwich 2-level overcall?

[helene_t]

3nt. Partner apparently has a heart stopper.

[mikeh]

After 2H, given that responder has promised another bid, via 2C, opener can safely pass with many hands with nothing special to say.

 

This means that one does not have much need for a takeout double. Meanwhile once in a while opener will have a trump stack, and needs to be able to express that. So I think the double of 2H should be a strong expression of a wish to defend. KJ9x or equivalent, with club shortage.

 

As for a 3H overcall, there is more need for some non-penalty meaning. Now, if 2C were gf, as it is for me, the issues are a little different. However, if 2C is not gf, then 2C does not promise a rebid should opener pass.

 

I think this is a good time to use double as 'some extras' (enough to force to game) and suggesting responder consider 3N.

[gszes]

its possible that 2hx is right but it seems wrong to leave the opps in their probable 9+ card fit at he 2 level when we have a very viable game opportunity in 3n.

I would start with a simple 2s to let p know I do not think 2hx was a good idea (they would realize it was due to distribution) and see what they decide. If somehow it goes 3h x I leave the second x in since I have already told partner I do not want to penalize hearts.

[Vampyr]

I heard some ppl after a jump change the meaning to T/O. Is this standard? I guess you are less likely to hold a trump stack but more likely to be short with a few extra HCP over a preempt vs. a sandwich 2-level overcall?

 

A leopard does not change its spots.

[dsLawsd]

Isn't it still possible to have 6♣ or even 6♦ on? Give partner the spade Ace and AK of diamonds? 2♠ and a later pull of 3♥ X would show a strong hand with good/long clubs.

Although at MPs it might be easy to bail in 3 NT.

[etha]

If your partner passes is 3♣ forcing ?

[nekthen]

What do I need to jump to 3[♣]?

 

I would think about the scoring at this point we only need 7 tricks to outscore game and 9 tricks to outscore slam. Surely partner has 5+♥ and 6+♦ and a minimum.

When my partner doubles for money I don’t take it out

 

The next question is “is this really a penalty double?” The correct answer is yes. I hope partner knows that!

[maartenxq]

If partner is to be trusted this is at this vulnerability an automatic pass. I suggested a good lead and we should be + 500 or more. Most would play this double as take out however. Then 2 ♥runs to me and I dbl with same result.

 

Maarten Baltussen

[msjennifer]

I shall bid 2S (Shall not pass 2HX).for obvious reasons.

[apollo1201]

If your partner passes is 3♣ forcing ?

It won’t. We play 2/1 in unopposed auction promises a rebid if opener doesn’t bid a game. So usually forcing up to 2NT or 3 in responder’s suit.

Thanks all the other for your comment and semi-confirmation of penalty at 2 but could be different at 3.

Actually opps bid 3, partner Xed and green vs red I left it for 500 but should be 800. Partner had a 3460 minimum sth like QJx A987 AT9xxx and would have passed 2H. 9 tricks were there in NT as the hand with the long H can’t gain the lead and clubs split 33.