Massive hand

[el mister]

Had the good fortune to pick up an absolute beast of a hand in a teams game this week:[hv=pc=n&s=sakqj64hk8dkcakq7&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1hpp]133|200[/hv]

 

Unfortunately LHO has opened the bidding, which doesn't leave much for partner. Would you just bid a quiet 4♠ here, or are you duty bound to at least make an auction out of it? (LHO is a decent player, ie not an HCP-merchant, if that matters).

 

If you double, opps are silent, and pard bids 2♦.

[Cyberyeti]

There is just room for partner to hold an ace here, but if he does, it's probably in diamonds rather than hearts and he has to have both an entry and a means of disposing of the 4th club as well (which could easily be the same thing).

 

3♠ should be forcing here after a double and ask for controls, if partner bids 4♥ then great, if he bids 4♦ then you may need to guess well.

 

Further complication, given that ♥A WILL be wrong, opposite xx, xx, Axxxx, 6543 you need to play in clubs, so it may be that you have to bid 6♣ over 4♦ (which if you play weak/strong Michaels should be 6+/4)

[gszes]

We require a LOT from p for slam to make (given the bidding) and IMHO it is not worth the risk(s) for the potential long shot reward.

1. We might wrongside 4s opposite xxx xxxx Qxx xxx when p bids 1s over the x

2. We might wrongside 6c opposite xx xxxx Axx xxxx when p bids 2c over the x

3. We might jeopardize making 6s by revealing our club length when p does not have a club fit xx xxxx Axxx xxx

4. We might wrongside 6s opposite xxx xxxx Axx Jxx when p bids 1s over the x

 

I would opt for 4s and hope that concludes the bidding and then try to make it opposite the inevitable spade void in p hand and total garbage:)

[nullve]

[hv=d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1hppdp2dp3n]133|100[/hv]

[661_Pete]

I picked up this yesterday, at pairs MPs, non-vul against vul:

 

♠ AK8

♥ AQ73

♦ AKJ82

♣ A

 

You don't get too many 25-pointers come your way! LHO doubled my 2♣, presumably showing lots of clubs, and this gave my partner the opportunity to pass. He then responded 2♥ to my 2♦ and I raised to 6♥ - a bit rashly.

 

Alas! Partner was one trick short. This was the only time that partner told me off, he said he was expecting 4♥. Lesson learnt. All too often monster hand = poor bidding! :unsure:

[mikeh]

There is just room for partner to hold an ace here, but if he does, it's probably in diamonds rather than hearts and he has to have both an entry and a means of disposing of the 4th club as well (which could easily be the same thing).

 

3♠ should be forcing here after a double and ask for controls, if partner bids 4♥ then great, if he bids 4♦ then you may need to guess well.

 

Further complication, given that ♥A WILL be wrong, opposite xx, xx, Axxxx, 6543 you need to play in clubs, so it may be that you have to bid 6♣ over 4♦ (which if you play weak/strong Michaels should be 6+/4)

I don't think double then 3S is forcing.

 

It is a truism of bridge theory that one does not design two methods to show the same hand.

 

To me, if I reopened with a double and then wanted to create a unilateral gameforce in a new suit, I would double, then cuebid, and then show my suit. Such would announce to partner that he can pass me, below game, only if holding only 12 cards or fewer.

 

Since I have that route to establish an unequivocal force, I don't need and would not use double then 3S to show the same hand. To me double then non-jump spades shows a hand unable to balance with 1S or 2S (the latter showing an opening hand with 6 spades). So double then 2S would be, say, 16 high and 5 spades.

 

Double then 3S shows a better hand, but one can have a hand much stronger than 16 high with 5 spades, and still be from gf.

 

AKQxxx x AJx KQx

 

This is a double then 3S hand. Were partner to hold something like xx xxx xxxx xxxx I'm too high already and I surely don't want to bid a game.

 

Whereas if I double then cuebid then bid spades, partner, even with a misfitting yarb, must bid

 

As for what approach I would take: I'd bid a simple 4S.

 

While the hand is strong enough to double and cue, the odds that we have a slam that both makes and can be bid with some measure of confidence is vanishingly low. Meanwhile, double, and even more so double then cuebid begs to wrongside the contract, often costing us an imp. Say it costs us an imp, compared to 4S from my side, 25% of the time, we'd need to have better than 40-1 odds of being able to bid and make a slam.

 

I don't see it. 40-1 is not a high hurdle, but to place partner with an Ace means LHO opened 1st seat with at most 11 hcp, one Ace and no Kings. If partner has an Ace, even it being the heart Ace doesn't mean we are making. And in any event, even if we can hold our red suits to one loser, we still have clubs to worry about. So much so that I doubt that we can bid a making slam with any confidence, and gambling a slam in this situation, merely because partner has an Ace (less so if it the unlikely heart Ace) seems foolish to me.

 

As for double then 3N....no doubt that it can be a big winner. However, I don't like gambling that the opps won't do something brilliant, either because they are brilliant or because they stumble into brilliancy.

 

LHO, on the auction double then 3N, will likely guess that his partner has no entry. So a low heart lead is unlikely to prevail.

 

He may well lead the diamond Ace and then have them run some diamonds and then play a heart through. Down 6 in 3N cold for 4S is likely to cause some amusement. Or the heart Ace and switch to the diamond Ace, although we are probably down no more than 1 or 2 on that defence, assuming partner has no stopper.

 

Sure, 4S could fail. But I think it more likely than not to make, especially if I just up and bid it. It may be difficult for an opponent to hold onto enough clubs to beat me even if, double-dummy, it would be easy and, of course, 4S will often be cold or cold on the lead.

[Cyberyeti]

 

Double then 3S shows a better hand, but one can have a hand much stronger than 16 high with 5 spades, and still be from gf.

 

AKQxxx x AJx KQx

 

This is a double then 3S hand. Were partner to hold something like xx xxx xxxx xxxx I'm too high already and I surely don't want to bid a game.

 

 

 

This is a direct 3♠ without the double for me

[nudnikbp]

Three notrump. Partner may have something in diamonds or the defenders may guess incorrectly and allow 3NT to make.

[apollo1201]

I think I’d just bid 4S, as shooting for 6 seems a very narrow target and it could avoid a 5D save by preventing W show a red 2-suiter at a low level and hitting a violent fit opposite.

 

If I wanna play « I’m the smartest around here at the table », or depending on my mood at the moment 😃, I could X. But now that partner bids the almost expected 2D, W might try a C lead if I bid 3NT and that would give me immediatemy 9 tricks without worrying in 4S of playing the H from hand or what am I gonna do with the small C. Direct 3NT is a bit adventurous.

[el mister]

Thks all - I ended up bidding 3♠ over 2♦ which partner passed out holding void spade, assorted rubbish, but four clubs so 4♠ was a make [clubs split but spades did not, so opps won the ten). Wasn't very happy at the time with pard's pass - Thought double and jump to 3 would create a force even in the pass out seat, but I can see now it's not so clear cut.

Simple 4♠ direct in the other room gave them 6 imps on the board.

[Cyberyeti]

Thks all - I ended up bidding 3♠ over 2♦ which partner passed out holding void spade, assorted rubbish, but four clubs so 4♠ was a make [clubs split but spades did not, so opps won the ten). Wasn't very happy at the time with pard's pass - Thought double and jump to 3 would create a force even in the pass out seat, but I can see now it's not so clear cut.

Simple 4♠ direct in the other room gave them 6 imps on the board.

 

So you have 5 spade tricks, 4 clubs and where is the 10th trick ? you seem to have 4 losers

[el mister]

So you have 5 spade tricks, 4 clubs and where is the 10th trick ? you seem to have 4 losers

I made K♥. LHO had both red aces - I think pard might had had Q♦ in dummy which might have persuaded him just to cashout, but I'm sorry I don't recall the exact details.

[msjennifer]

SIR,with LHO having opened the bidding in the first seat ,one can expect AT LEAST 11 HCP with him.IT is hence a remote chance for partner to have ONE ACE and even if has it there may not be an entry to cash it for a heart discard and ALSO hope that the spades and clubs will behave well.Slam ,therefore is out of consideration.This leaves the simple and straight forward bid of 4S and not a double or cue of 2H.However,one can construct a hand where even 4S contract will go down.As a passing remark if one has the chance to open this hand as a 2C opening in the fourth seat ,a jump bid on the 2D by Partner is used by us to ask partner to show a specific ace or two and later relay bids to find out specific K/Q.An article on this was published in the American Bridge World magazine under the title "Embellishments to 2C opening for Standard bidders" about 45/50 years back of which I am lucky to have a copy given by my father,.

[rmnka447]

I'm bidding 4 ♠

 

From the given hand, the missing honors are ♥ AQJ ♦ AQJ ♣ J.

 

I find it hard to believe that if LHO is any decent player that it would be opened without both As. Even if LHO did, it's still around 50/50 whether partner has the missing A. So, it seems like too small a target to go beyond game.

[cherdano]

Even if LHO did, it's still around 50/50 whether partner has the missing A.

LOL

[miamijd]

I would just bid 4S. Odds are tremendously against partner having the Ah, and even if he does, you still need to score the fourth club (not a guarantee) to make 6. On the other hand, if you mess around with something like a X, the opponents might find a monster red-suit double fit and bid 5D or 5H over your eventual 4S. Now what you gonna do?

 

Cheers,

Mike

[PhilG007]

Had the good fortune to pick up an absolute beast of a hand in a teams game this week:[hv=pc=n&s=sakqj64hk8dkcakq7&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1hpp]133|200[/hv]

 

Unfortunately LHO has opened the bidding, which doesn't leave much for partner. Would you just bid a quiet 4♠ here, or are you duty bound to at least make an auction out of it? (LHO is a decent player, ie not an HCP-merchant, if that matters).

 

If you double, opps are silent, and pard bids 2♦.

 

Bid 4♠ and be damned Half a loaf is better than no bread

[RD350LC]

Bid 4♠ and be damned Half a loaf is better than no bread

With this I agree. The chances of you having a slam when the opps open the bidding are very slim.

I once had a hand like the following:

♠AKQ

♥AKxx

♦AKxx

♣AQ

Of course I opened 2♣, and after the inevitable 2♦ reply, bid 4NT-showing 28-30 hcp.

Partner missed this, and we would up in 6NT, down 1.