Cyberyeti Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Bad day to be Jewish if you are living in the UK... Only if you join ISIS which I think is somewhat unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Only if you join ISIS which I think is somewhat unlikely. No, only if you do something unpopular... Me, I am really leery about allowing the government to start stripping people of rights because someone did something unpopular...If I were Jewish, l'd be even more nervous... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 No, only if you do something unpopular... Me, I am really leery about allowing the government to start stripping people of rights because someone did something unpopular...If I were Jewish, l'd be even more nervous... I think it's actually if you give your support to an organization that fights against this country. The Jewish community is already nervous about the prospect of a Corbyn government. Stripping of rights has happened many times in the past for dual citizens. A load of Jamaican criminals were sent back there, some of whom hadn't been there since they were small children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 I think it's actually if you give your support to an organization that fights against this country. Today A load of Jamaican criminals were sent back there, some of whom hadn't been there since they were small children. Or apparently just committing a crime. I stand by my original statement, do something unpopular and you're *****ed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 20, 2019 Report Share Posted February 20, 2019 Or apparently just committing a crime. I stand by my original statement, do something unpopular and you're *****ed... It's a long standing thing that people who commit crimes (I'm not sure if it's with a sentence of or who actually serve) more than a year and are citizens of another country may well get deported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyams Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 I think the situation with her citizenship is now becoming really weird. Are we saying that just because her ethnicity is Bangladeshi, she can be compelled by the UK Govt. to go seek Bangladeshi citizenship? How many generations does one have to have lived in the UK to become "fully British"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 I think the situation with her citizenship is now becoming really weird. Are we saying that just because her ethnicity is Bangladeshi, she can be compelled by the UK Govt. to go seek Bangladeshi citizenship? How many generations does one have to have lived in the UK to become "fully British"? What Sajid Javid said was that her parents were both Bangladeshi citizens, then so inevitably is she. This is denied by the Bangladeshi government. Legal action is inevitable now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Let's evade responsibility for the criminal scum which our society produces and dump them in Bangladesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 This week’s Private Eye cover is hilarious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 This week’s Private Eye cover is hilarious.Can you post a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 Can you post a link? link to current issue of Private Eye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 A few thoughts. In any relationship everyone has obligations and expectations. If someone runs off to join ISIS it is no great surprise that her (in this case her, but her or his) countrymen don't want her back when that doesn't go well. There are legalities, I leave that to the lawyers. And there is the possibility of overlooking a mistake, especially by a young person. But describing what she did as "unpopular" seems like a massive understatement. Speaking out in favor of ISIS would be unpopular. Joining ISIS, and by joining I mean leaving your home country and residing with ISIS and participating in their aims, is something else entirely. I believe that we in the U.S. have a couple of cases along the same lines, else I would just shut up. I think we start by applying the law as it is now written. Perhaps the law could/should be changed in one direction or the other, for future cases. Perhaps the law might be tempered with mercy in some way in the cases at hand. Perhaps. And perhaps not. Details could matter. But I do not think it is either surprising or unjust to apply the law vigorously to someone who has joined ISIS. Going easy would be very generous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 I'm with Ken on this. I don't know how much weight to give to youth in these situation. If we start with the premise that we are in a virtually never-ending war with terrorists, then running off to join ISIS would be in the U.S. the very definition of treason. If that is the case, the reward for coming home is a lifetime in prison. That seems unduly harsh in one sense but deserved in another sense. I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions as I am totally conflicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 I'm with Ken on this. I don't know how much weight to give to youth in these situation. If we start with the premise that we are in a virtually never-ending war with terrorists, then running off to join ISIS would be in the U.S. the very definition of treason. If that is the case, the reward for coming home is a lifetime in prison. That seems unduly harsh in one sense but deserved in another sense. I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions as I am totally conflicted. I think in the UK she would get a maximum of 10 years for the offence she has committed, won't get the max and will serve half of it if she behaves, maybe 3 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 If we start with the premise that we are in a virtually never-ending war with terrorists, then running off to join ISIS would be in the U.S. the very definition of treason. Treason would be to join an enemy army. ISIS is not an army as they don't represent a recognized country. It's just a criminal gang. And not even an enemy of the UK, as they were supported by U.K.'s Turkish and Saudi allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 Treason would be to join an enemy army. ISIS is not an army as they don't represent a recognized country. It's just a criminal gang. And not even an enemy of the UK, as they were supported by U.K.'s Turkish and Saudi allies. I don't think that is necessary. Article III, Section 3 “Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 Treason would be to join an enemy army. ISIS is not an army as they don't represent a recognized country. It's just a criminal gang. And not even an enemy of the UK, as they were supported by U.K.'s Turkish and Saudi allies. This thing about not being a state is an issue that needs serious thought. Thy are organized, they control, or did control, territory, they have or had an aggressive agenda to control more territory. A non-lawyer such as myself is apt to say if it quacks it's a duck. If we need to alter existing law to deal with state-like organizations that perhaps are not technically states then I would say let's get moving on that. Exactly what should be done? I am not the guy to ask. But I don't think we want to be saying "Well, if they had a recognized government we would do such and such but since they don't have one then we will just have to let it pass by." If there is a technical legal point here then we should fix that technical legal point. Is ISIS our (the U.S.) enemy?The laws have not, I think, entirely caught up with changed reality. In 1941 the U.S. declared war on Japan, Germany declared war on the U.S., the U.S. declared war on Germany .Three nations, and of course many others, making declaration of war. That's quite a while back. That's not how it goes anymore. ISIS is/was a governing body with territory and policies and we have been engaged in a prolonged military struggle with them .Sounds like an enemy. The U.K. can say the same. We should not be paralyzed by their technical lack of nationhood. They aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 I think in the UK she would get a maximum of 10 years for the offence she has committed, won't get the max and will serve half of it if she behaves, maybe 3 years. This is not unlikely, and it is way too little. I find it somewhat odd that in this country crimes have a “ maximum sentence”. By the way, in the US I am pretty sure that treason does not carry a sentence of life imprisonment. Although technically I guess it does. Of course the life will be very short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 I think it's actually if you give your support to an organization that fights against this country. The Jewish community is already nervous about the prospect of a Corbyn government. Stripping of rights has happened many times in the past for dual citizens. A load of Jamaican criminals were sent back there, some of whom hadn't been there since they were small children.Seems to me that if they came to England as children, and later became criminals in England, they're not "Jamaican criminals", whatever their ancestry. They're English criminals. Of course, if they were in England illegally, that's another issue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 Seems to me that if they came to England as children, and later became criminals in England, they're not "Jamaican criminals", whatever their ancestry. They're English criminals. Of course, if they were in England illegally, that's another issue. It's a reasonable argument, I think most of them were never British citizens, simply had indefinite right to remain, and that gets revoked if you commit a serious crime. It's more complicated because it depends on the nature of the crime, some of them are organised by gangs of Jamaicans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.