bidding over preempt

[phoenixmj]

[hv=pc=n&s=sat865432hakd7cj8&w=sqhj9542dt852caq7&n=skj7hqtd943ckt642&e=s9h8763dakqj6c953]399|300[/hv]

 

Came across this hand in a tournament. both vulnerable. East is dealer and astonishingly opened 2 diamonds - which they confirmed was a preemptive 2 bid. What should south bid? A straight 2 spades is acceptable but does not give information on true length and does not give information on the power of the hand. A Double implies more high card points.

 

Our results on this one were skewed because I doubt that other tables faced a 2 diamond open.

 

For this hand, I did not like the 2 spade bid because I thought it distorts the value of the hand. I might have doubled first and then bid the suit - after finding out something about partner's hand. It makes 5 spades - but south would like to know that north has the queen of trump.

 

What do you think? How should the bidding have gone to make sure we get to 4 spades.

[TylerE]

Not good enough X and bid imo. Should have more defense, and if partner bids 5 of a minor you're really in a world of hurt.

 

ATxxxxx really isn't that special. I think 2♠ is fine. To have a real shot at 4 partner needs either good spades or good stuff in the minors, and with either 2♠ shouldn't end the auction.

 

A direct 4♠ isn't terrible, but again you really need more suit quality. If dummy comes down with either a void or a stiff you could easily have 3 trump losers.

 

So overall I'd say like...

 

2♠ = 10

4♠ = 6

X = 1

[ahydra]

2S over a pre-empt can be quite wide-ranging, say 11-17. Other options include 3S (strong single-suiter - needs about another ace) or 4S ("I think I can make 4S"). With eight spades I'd probably pick a straight 4S and play it there. Alternatively, over 2S it goes (3D)-3S; (p)-4S.

 

ATxxxxx really isn't that special. I think 2♠ is fine. To have a real shot at 4 partner needs either good spades or good stuff in the minors, and with either 2♠ shouldn't end the auction.

 

There are eight spades, not seven.

 

ahydra

[TylerE]

Whoops, I can't count. Then, yeah, I think 4♠ probably best but 2♠ is still way better than starting with X, which is just...misguided at best.

[neilkaz]

With 8♠ and this much trick taking power I happily bid 4♠.

[DozyDom]

I think I swoop in with 4S, but I don't understand how to miss 4S on these cards. Surely N supported to 3S? How can S justify not bidding 4? What does the trump queen have to do with anything anyway - do you mean the trump king, the only relevant card in the suit for S?

[Tramticket]

I wouldn't consider double. An immediate 3S would show the strength (high cards). Bidding 4S shows shape - which is what you seem to have.

[pescetom]

For me it's 4♠, although I would be more comfortable with that if we had also agreed Namyats.

[HardVector]

I've noticed some people playing that a 2s bid could be as light as 11. I dislike this idea. I've always preferred disciplined overcalls, so for me, 2s would actually show a good hand (if they are weak, I am strong). Now partner, knowing I have a good hand, can compete with their 9 points. With this hand, however, I'd just cut to the chase and bid 4s.

[kuhchung]

does everyone really play that 4S is weaker than 3S? either i am being super weird or you guys are all non standard

 

x and bid should be a flexible hand. this hand is not flexible.

 

i'm going 3S

[pescetom]

does everyone really play that 4S is weaker than 3S? either i am being super weird or you guys are all non standard

 

x and bid should be a flexible hand. this hand is not flexible.

 

i'm going 3S

 

X only has to be flexible if it is not strong enough to bid later: if you do bid later then you show the real thing (more than this hand) and maybe you weren't flexible after all.

 

For me 4S is not weaker than 3S here, but it is longer (like this hand is).