Fragment or cuebid?

[YesHoney]

1♥ 2♥

2♠ 3♥

4♦

 

What could be opener's holding? What is 4♦?

[Cyberyeti]

What does 2♥ show ? 2♠ is LSGT ? and how freely do you open a strong bid in preference to 1M ? system matters here (ie can you have a slam try opposite what I presume is a decline of a long suit game try without 4♦ being a void), also what would 3N be instead of 4♦ ?

[YesHoney]

2♥ 6-9

2♠ LSGT

 

Strong openings pretty standard

 

No agreement on 3NT.

[Cyberyeti]

2♥ 6-9

2♠ LSGT

 

Strong openings pretty standard

 

No agreement on 3NT.

 

5M ? 2♥ often 3 ? different bid with 7-9 and 4 ?

 

I'd suggest something like AK(J/x)x, AKxxxx, void, QJx focussing partner's mind on the clubs (and major suit better than Js being gold dust).

[pescetom]

1♥ 2♥

2♠ 3♥

4♦

 

What could be opener's holding? What is 4♦?

 

I've never played fragment bids, but as I understand it they are unusual jump bids showing fit in partner's last bid suit and shortage in the fourth suit. If so, they seem unapplicable here, where you already have an agreed major fit and the bid is not an unusual jump. Do you have an agreement to play them, and if so how are they defined?

It doesn't look probable as a control-showing cuebid either, unless your agreement is that it does not deny control of skipped suits.

Perhaps some kind of last train, if you play that?

[The_Badger]

Before we can unilaterally decide what 4♦ is here - though Cyberyeti's answer is as good as it gets - we have to know realistically what 3♥ after 2♠ (Long Suit Game Try) - if that's how you play it [as opposed a trial bid] - is? Minimum hand, minimum values, minimum ruffing values, no honours in trump suit, etc, etc.?

 

As Cyber indicates, 4♦ is focussing responder on the ♣ suit and the quality (or lack of it) in the trump suit.

 

But responder has at his disposal 2NT, 3♣, 3♦, 3♠, 3NT, 4♣, 4♦, 4♥ instead of 3♥ in reply to 2♠ then what all those bids mean in context of opener's 2♠ must be taken into consideration.

[nige1]

1♥ 2♥

2♠ 3♥

4♦

 

What could be opener's holding? What is 4♦?

Agree with everyone...

2♠ = TRY for game in the first instance but now turns out to be CUE for slam

4♦ = CUE. Looking for ♣ control e.g. ♠ A K x x x [HE} A K x x x x ♦ - ♣ Q x

[pescetom]

4♦ = CUE. Looking for a ♣ control e.g. ♠ A K x x x [HE} A K x x x x ♦ - ♣ x x

Wouldn't 3♠ = CUE look for the same more economically?

[YesHoney]

Before we can unilaterally decide what 4♦ is here - though Cyberyeti's answer is as good as it gets - we have to know realistically what 3♥ after 2♠ (Long Suit Game Try) - if that's how you play it [as opposed a trial bid] - is? Minimum hand, minimum values, minimum ruffing values, no honours in trump suit, etc, etc.?

 

As Cyber indicates, 4♦ is focussing responder on the ♣ suit and the quality (or lack of it) in the trump suit.

 

But responder has at his disposal 2NT, 3♣, 3♦, 3♠, 3NT, 4♣, 4♦, 4♥ instead of 3♥ in reply to 2♠ then what all those bids mean in context of opener's 2♠ must be taken into consideration.

 

♠ suit is 3 or more cards.

3♥ is absolute minimum, no help in ♠ and no counteroffer.

[nige1]

♠ suit is 3 or more cards.3♥ is absolute minimum, no help in ♠ and no counteroffer.

 

Opposite, say, ♠ A K x x x ♥ A K x x x x ♦ - ♣ Q x. if responder holds

• ♠ x x ♥ x x x x ♦ x x x x ♣ K x x, then a small slam is reasonable.
• ♠ Q x x ♥ J x x x x ♦ x x x x x ♣ -, then a grand is excellent.

[dsLawsd]

GIB uses 2S to show an unspecified short suit game try. Otherwise it would make sense to show a help suit game try in a hand of around 15+ HCP.

 

3H sounds like a minimum with no help in spades or no interest opposite any singleton.

 

4♦ depends upon what the agreement is as to 2♠.

I would suggest a strong 6-4-3 hand with a void unsuitable for trying

Blackwood in so far as the auction forces to game.

[msjennifer]

What does 2♥ show ? 2♠ is LSGT ? and how freely do you open a strong bid in preference to 1M ? system matters here (ie can you have a slam try opposite what I presume is a decline of a long suit game try without 4♦ being a void), also what would 3N be instead of 4♦ ?

Sir,i fully agree with you.It all depends upon the partnership understanding.Without any special agreements,NORMALLY this 4D bid must show(since this bid has avoided any other TEMPORISING bid like say 3NT) a first round control in Diamonds with no first or second round control in Club suit.

[pescetom]

Sir,i fully agree with you.It all depends upon the partnership understanding.Without any special agreements,NORMALLY this 4D bid must show(since this bid has avoided any other TEMPORISING bid like say 3NT) a first round control in Diamonds with no first or second round control in Club suit.

As asked to another poster, with these "normal" agreements what would 3 Spades show? If it shows some degree of control in spades then surely it would elict the same information about clubs, more economically.

[msjennifer]

As asked to another poster, with these "normal" agreements what would 3 Spades show? If it shows some degree of control in spades then surely it would elict the same information about clubs, more economically.

SIR,a 3S bid will confirm the distributional pattern which was earlier suggested by 2S reverse (I am assuming that it was not a LST which some pairs do play with a forced 2NT by responder after which opener shows his long suit by bidding 3C/3D with 3H showing a spade suit.) To ask partner to cue bid controls, opener bids a forcing 3NT and not 3S.

[gszes]

partner is taking time to try and show entire hand pattern making 4d at worst 3 and probably 4 with a club void. The ability to pattern out allows for maximum reevaluation by responder and allowing the responder to not only help with level but strain (we might prefer to play a 9 card diamond fit vs 8 card heart fit at the 6 level). The failure by opener to splinter earlier in the bidding means this hand is most likely around 20 hcp (still trying to slam opposite known min by responder) while the immediate splinter would have been closer to 17.

[Caitlynne]

Assuming that 2S is natural, 1 round forcing game try (which it should be since no explanation was offered) and 3H declines the game try, then there can be no agreed meaning of 4D other than it must be some kind of natural slam try. So it could be a cue bid or a fragment. But who cares? The message is clear: I am not worried about clubs and I want to know how well the values of your already disclosed raise to 2H fit my cards in spades and diamonds. If you have club cards, you correct to 4H. If you lack club values, you find some encouraging bid. Very simple really.