Partner, please stop bidding

[smerriman]

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IMPs. Your bid?

 

I chose 3♣, after which West pushed to 3♥ and partner followed up with 3♠.

 

Now what?

 

(Assume West isn't particularly strong - there was no reason for not bidding 3♥ initially - so don't read anything into that).

 

Edit - had the vulnerability wrong. Fixed now.

[Tramticket]

You could have bid 3C on the first round, but didn't. It seems to me that 3C on the second round is saying that you want to play 3C. You have told partner the message and I will rescue partner once, but not twice. Pass.

[helene_t]

4♣. I don't think my 3♣ bid showed this specific hand. I could have been 3-6 in the black suits with 6-7 points. If partner has AKQJT-xx-KQJxxx-void he can bid once more, and with most other hands 4♣ is the right contract. That 3♠ is the last makeable contract is possible, but unlikely.

[wank]

yes, 3c didn't show 8. got to bid em again.

[The_Badger]

You could have bid 3C on the first round, but didn't. It seems to me that 3C on the second round is saying that you want to play 3C. You have told partner the message and I will rescue partner once, but not twice. Pass.

 

I entirely agree with the principle of rescuing partner once but not twice, but I also think that 4♣ is the right bid to make as your suit is longer than partner's and is half-decent. He doesn't need much for 5♣ to be on the cards.

[mikeh]

Assuming partner knows what he is doing, and trusts us to know what we are doing, I’d expect partner to often be 5=2=6=0, in which case not only have we no play for 5C, but we’re very likely to be doubled. Bet, I ‘liked’ The Badger’s comment because I was busy and misread the hand.

 

I am quitting before matters get worse.

[Winstonm]

I am pretty certain I would have passed 2S. I stopped the bidding, anyway.

[heart76]

Something is weird to me. Assuming 2H is weak and pass from W is either misfit with any hand or weak with max 3 H. Assuming also partner needs to be 18+ with 6+ D and 5 S.

I place partner with 5-1-7-0 or 5-1-6-1 and pass 3S since I expect W to have 4 or 5 of them and I don't get in to finesse anything.

4C is not a possible bid for me, even assuming that p gets the message that he shall pass. After all we've got 2 C losers and 3 H losers if they play H and C.

[gszes]

3c is not really a rescue per se (if it was 2sx then it would be a rescue) it is merely stating that you feel we would be better off in clubs than in spades or diamonds. P cannot imagine we r holding 8 clubs just from a 3c bid so now we make our first rescue bid of 4c.

[dparish]

Do you know what you call an 8 card suit? TRUMP 4C without question.

[nekthen]

As you passed 2H, maybe there is a case for 2N lebensohl style over 2S puppet to 3C

Either way I now bid 4c and pass thereafter

[dsLawsd]

Using some form of sign off over a reverse- 2NT gets you to 3♣.

Otherwise Pass,

[nige1]

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smerriman asks "IMPs. Your bid?

I chose 3♣, after which West pushed to 3♥ and partner followed up with 3♠.

Now what?

(Assume West isn't particularly strong - there was no reason for not bidding 3♥ initially - so don't read anything into that)."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

I rank

1. 4♣ = NAT Hoggish but hard to pass with an 8-card suit

2. Pass = NAT Partner might not be 6070 but he definitely has 5+ good ♠. Perhaps ♠ K x x x x x ♥ x ♦ A K Q J x x ♣ -[/hv]

[mikeh]

If partner is 6-6, I don’t care what I bid, since I’m playing with someone with whom I will likely never play again. In any event, the one contract we know we can’t make us 4C so why bid it?

 

Making up hands for partner is a mug’s game, but we can hope for something like AQJxx x AKJxxx x

 

On the heart lead, the inevitable trump switch allows us to finesse, probably winning, ruff a diamond and maybe get lucky. Meanwhile, it is trivial to beat 4C unless partner has the club A

 

Note that he could well have an even better hand than I have suggested and should rarely have worse with unless void in clubs, which makes bidding 4C even worse.....the doubling could be about to start

[neilkaz]

If partner is 6-6, I don’t care what I bid, since I’m playing with someone with whom I will likely never play again. In any event, the one contract we know we can’t make us 4C so why bid it?

 

Making up hands for partner is a mug’s game, but we can hope for something like AQJxx x AKJxxx x

 

On the heart lead, the inevitable trump switch allows us to finesse, probably winning, ruff a diamond and maybe get lucky. Meanwhile, it is trivial to beat 4C unless partner has the club A

 

Note that he could well have an even better hand than I have suggested and should rarely have worse with unless void in clubs, which makes bidding 4C even worse.....the doubling could be about to start

 

If 3♠ gets doubled after you pass now, then what do you do?

[mikeh]

1. I would be extremely surprised were it to be doubled

 

2. I don’t see how 4C would be an improvement. Only a very weak opp doubles 3S without the ability to hammer 4C

[smerriman]

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My initial reaction - and partner's initial reaction to my pass - was that 3♠ was forcing.

 

But 4♣ couldn't be right - as a couple have stated, you're losing the first 5 tricks unless partner has the club Ace, which seems highly unlikely. If partner had 10 tricks in her own hand, I thought the bidding may have gone differently. So I passed (first time deliberately passing a bid I thought was "forcing"?)

 

3♠ makes exactly, while 4♣ is down 2, as expected.

 

(Why West didn't bid 3♥ the first time, which may well have pushed us too high, I have no idea).

[gszes]

Unless there is some kind of conventional bid in use, I think the example hand and most of the proposed opening bidder hands should have been either opened 2c OR 1d followed by 3s (not merely 2s). The 3s bid showing not only this distribution but begging partner to put us in game with even one useful card in our suits. The problem with the 2s bid is that it fails to show the dynamics of the hand and leaves room for partner to think their club suit (if any) might somehow be useful. How would you bid Axxxx void AQJxxx xx? I think most would open 1d and after 2h p p would back in with 2s. That is the problem with the example hand. The club bidders are imagining far less robust suits when they are saving partner from themselves. Now how about the belated 3s bid surely this means there is some kind of club tolerance that allows the opening bidder to bid on since it has improved their hand. That makes the 4c stand out even more --- just a thought.

[maartenxq]

You could have bid 3C on the first round, but didn't. It seems to me that 3C on the second round is saying that you want to play 3C. You have told partner the message and I will rescue partner once, but not twice. Pass.

I agree. This being said it makes a big difference whether partner is your average BBO expert, or someone you really trust. If the last case applies I think you can pass with confidence. I would even bid game with 3 small spades.

 

Maarten Baltussen

[HardVector]

I agree. This being said it makes a big difference whether partner is your average BBO expert, or someone you really trust. If the last case applies I think you can pass with confidence. I would even bid game with 3 small spades.

 

Maarten Baltussen

I agree with this as well. Rule 1 with misfits, pass as soon as you can.

[johnu]

But 4♣ couldn't be right - as a couple have stated, you're losing the first 5 tricks unless partner has the club Ace, which seems highly unlikely.

 

Partner reversed. I don't think partner having the ♥A would be that surprising if they have nothing in clubs.

[mikeh]

Partner reversed. I don't think partner having the ♥A would be that surprising if they have nothing in clubs.

While partner did reverse, when he holds a 5=6 hand with decent to good suits, he needs nothing on the side. While you passed over 2H, that does not deny a hand that offers good play for at least game in one or both of his suits, and yet it would be most unwise to double with such a hand. You ought not, tho, read too much into his bidding. Look at the example I gave, which I suggested was an appropriate minimum.

[nige1]

You could have bid 3C on the first round, but didn't. It seems to me that 3C on the second round is saying that you want to play 3C. You have told partner the message and I will rescue partner once, but not twice. Pass.

Assuming partner knows what he is doing, and trusts us to know what we are doing, I'd expect partner to often be 5=2=6=0, in which case not only have we no play for 5C, but we're very likely to be doubled.

Something is weird to me. Assuming 2H is weak and pass from W is either misfit with any hand or weak with max 3 H. Assuming also partner needs to be 18+ with 6+ D and 5 S. I place partner with 5-1-7-0 or 5-1-6-1 and pass 3S since I expect W to have 4 or 5 of them and I don't get in to finesse anything. 4C is not a possible bid for me, even assuming that p gets the message that he shall pass. After all we've got 2 C losers and 3 H losers if they play H and C.

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My initial reaction - and partner's initial reaction to my pass - was that 3♠ was forcing.

But 4♣ couldn't be right - as a couple have stated, you're losing the first 5 tricks unless partner has the club Ace, which seems highly unlikely. If partner had 10 tricks in her own hand, I thought the bidding may have gone differently. So I passed (first time deliberately passing a bid I thought was "forcing"?)

3♠ makes exactly, while 4♣ is down 2, as expected.

(Why West didn't bid 3♥ the first time, which may well have pushed us too high, I have no idea).[/hv]

 

On reflection, Tramticket, Heart76, MikeH, and SMerriman are right :) And the last-named got it right at the table :)

[helene_t]

My initial reaction - and partner's initial reaction to my pass - was that 3♠ was forcing.

No, you could have zero points and if partner wanted to force opposite that, he would have opened 2♣. In the rare event that he has game in his own hand but too little defense for a 2♣ opening, he would have to jump to 4♠ at his second turn, or bid 3♥ maybe (doubling 2♥ before bidding game is of course also possible).

 

2♠ already denied GF strength (if 1♦ didn't, after all 1♦ is not forcing either), so 3♠ is not forcing.

[rmnka447]

I'm passing 3 ♠. Partner has shown at least a reversing hand that is 6-5. But my hand is of little or no use to partner and the hand is likely a misfit. I don't think that 3 ♠ is forcing. I'm electing to play in our 7 card fit rather than our 6 card fit. If I try to "save" partner, there's no guarantee that playing in ♣ will be any better and could just be raising the amount of the set.