Weak NT - escapes by opener ?

[mangurian]

I am planning to switch to weak NT openers (11-14 HCP):

 

Suppose the bidding goes:

 

1NT, X, pass, pass

?

 

I will use Meckwell escapes by responder.

 

Is there a recommended way for opener to say "get me out of here" and should that ever be done in that partner did not bid ?

[gordontd]

I am planning to switch to weak NT openers (11-14 HCP):

 

Suppose the bidding goes:

 

1NT, X, pass, pass

?

 

I will use Meckwell escapes by responder.

 

Is there a recommended way for opener to say "get me out of here" and should that ever be done in that partner did not bid ?

You can't know better than your partner whether you should pull the double.

[Tramticket]

You can't know better than your partner whether you should pull the double.

 

Agreed.

 

But I think that 1NT, (Pass), Pass, (Dbl); is a different case and I would be more inclined to bid a decent five-card suit if it seemed safest.

[gordontd]

Agreed.

 

But I think that 1NT, (Pass), Pass, (Dbl); is a different case and I would be more inclined to bid a decent five-card suit if it seemed safest.

Better is to have redouble as showing a five-card suit after a fourth-seat double. Then partner can convert it if suitable. And after a fourth-seat redouble, a bid of 2H by responder can show 4-4 in the majors, since you would have already transferred into a five-card major.

[awm]

It seems reasonable to play xx as “I have a five card suit” allowing partner to run if he had a weak but very flat hand for his pass, or to sit if he really thought you were making.

[Tramticket]

Better is to have redouble as showing a five-card suit after a fourth-seat double. Then partner can convert it if suitable. And after a fourth-seat redouble, a bid of 2H by responder can show 4-4 in the majors, since you would have already transferred into a five-card major.

 

Yes, I do this with one partner.

[barmar]

I don't play weak NT, but don't many play that after a direct double, responder's pass requires opener to redouble? Then responder can pass if they think you're making, or start a runout sequence.

 

The general philosophy in all these cases is that the NT bidder is rarely captain.

[pescetom]

I don't play weak NT, but don't many play that after a direct double, responder's pass requires opener to redouble? Then responder can pass if they think you're making, or start a runout sequence.

 

IIRC that is even played over strong NT in SEF.

 

Around here, more often than not a direct double over strong NT is conventional. We just play that redouble obliges opener to bid 2C pass/correct.

[nige1]

According to the BridgeBum website (recommended by thePossum),

After 1N (X) ??, Meckwell escapes are

• Pass = PUP to 2♣., showing a m or both Ms.
• XX = NAT business..
• 2♣ = NAT ♣s and another.
• 2♦ = NAT ♦ and a M.
• 2M = NAT 5+ bid M.

Then opener does what he's told

[mikeh]

It's tough to argue with Meckwell, since they played very weak notrump in the toughest of fields, but my preferred approach is a bit different:

 

Pass: forces a redouble, assuming 4th seat passes. Responder may be passing this for business or will be showing certain 2-suiters, being non-touching suits (so clubs and hearts or diamonds and spades) or both majors, spades as good as or better than hearts. So 1N (x) P (P) xx (P) 2D is diamonds and spades, 2C would have been clubs and hearts

 

 

xx: forces opener to bid 2C. Responder has a single suited run-out....will pass with clubs or bid his suit. Note that with some dreadful 4333 responder may choose to xx and then pass 2C, and then, if doubled, xx to get opener to run

 

2C minors

 

2D reds

 

2H majors, with better/longer hearts

 

2S: 5+ spades and the sort of hand that is happy to hear opener raise, in competition, with a suitable 4 card holding.

 

 

That latter point (an immediate 2S) can be useful, since spades is the master suit and being able to invite opener to compete can allow one to win the occasional part-score battle.

 

 

2N by responder, over the double, is not really a rescue or run-out: it shows a gf hand with at least 5-5 shape, and bidding continues until a fit is found and game is reached.

 

 

3 level bids are preemptive

[LBengtsson]

Helvic convention is alternative.

[hamish32]

We play that a xx by responder is 11+. So pass here is almost forcing. We will pass with 4333 shape otherwise we bid a 5 card suit and xx with 2 four card suits.

 

Incedentally dont play 11-14 red should be 12-14 (or even 13-14 if we he room is full of experts). 11-14 green. Also in 3rd and 4th seats play 15-15 only when red. An 11-14 red in 3rd or 4th is screaming for a penality.

[nekthen]

1N x p ?

 

pass weak no 5 carder or happy to play

xx or 2x transfer

2♠ weak long spades

 

after pass

1N bidder redoubles with flat hand or bids his 5 card suit

 

By all means work out something more complicated with a regular partner, but this works for casual partners

[GrahamJson]

I’ve always played weak NT but never with a formal escape system. Often 1NTX going down is not a bad score, so I’m not that keen on methods that don’t allow you to play there. Also there is no guarantee that two of a suit will be any better. Finally, fourth hand will sometimes rescue you by taking out if the double is passed.

 

Our methods are that an immediate redouble is for business (as would be subsequent doubles and redoubles) but that any other redoubles are SOS. Obviously responder will normally take out into a five card suit so passing the double would indicate a balanced hand. Opener can then take out into a five card suit if he has one or redouble if he has a bit of shape and doesn’t fancy playing 1NTX (this might depend on RHO’s demeanor when he passed the double). Responder can also use his judgement as to whether it is worth rescuing on a semi balanced hand. So with 4432 shape he might bid 2C, then redouble for rescue, redoubling a second time if 2D by opener is doubled.

 

Of course playing these somewhat seat of the pants methods make it difficult to find 4-4 minor suit fits as an immediate take out to 2C or 2D would normally be a five card suit. On the other hand if you do have a 4-4 minor suit fit it and are going down 2 or more in 1NT it is very likely that opponents are making game in a major, so it may not be a bad result.

[maartenxq]

 

Is there a recommended way for opener to say "get me out of here" and should that ever be done in that partner did not bid ?

In strong NT I play

1 NT - X - ? XX trsf ♣all suits transfer.

p - p

Opener must redouble, pass responder is now business, 2 ♣despair. Opener passes with 5crd or bids his best other suit. 4 crds up the line.

 

Maarten Baltussen

[pescetom]

In strong NT I play

1 NT - X - ? XX trsf ♣all suits transfer.

p - p

Opener must redouble, pass responder is now business, 2 ♣despair. Opener passes with 5crd or bids his best other suit. 4 crds up the line.

 

If I understand rightly, that's exactly what @barmar described above.

[PhilG007]

I used the SOS redouble by opener for many years. Its unconditionally forcing and partner must remove to his best suit preferring length to pointage. If you are going to use this particular gadget,it needs prior partnership agreement to make sure both players are on the same wavelength. Its by no means foolproof but then again,what gadget is(?!)

[xanron]

My partner and I have played the following, which we have found works well for over 40 years. After the double of 1NT (12-15), responder with 0-9 HCP, bids any 5-card suit (natural) or passes (forcing, alertable) without a 5 card suit; redoubles with 10-12; passes (forcing, alertable) with 13+. If RHO passes the forcing pass, bid a 5-card suit or redouble without one. With a weak hand, partner responds to the redouble with 4-card suits up-the-line.

[Winstonm]

I always thought Marty Begern's DONT should be converted to an escape system.

 

XX=single suited hand

2C-clubs and a higher suit

2D-diamonds and a higher suit

2H-both majors

2S-single suited spades weaker than XX followed by 2S

[HardVector]

I've always played the following after 1nt-(X)-:

XX, 2c, 2d, 2h = transfers

pass = forces partner to XX either to play (with values), or as a 2 suited escape.

[helene_t]

I always thought Marty Begern's DONT should be converted to an escape system.

 

XX=single suited hand

2C-clubs and a higher suit

2D-diamonds and a higher suit

2H-both majors

2S-single suited spades weaker than XX followed by 2S

Yes this is quite popular in the UK. It is probably my favorite run-out when playing 12-14 or weaker.

[bedfordvan]

I play weak nt Benji acol and the method to deal with a double of 1nt is the Helvic wriggle. I see someone mentioned it but they didn't explain the bonus. If 1 nt is doubled and partner passes you are forced to redouble which partner can pass if he has a decent hand ( say 10 points plus).

 

a direct suit bid after double shows 2 lowest of 2 touching suits after a redouble a suit shows 2 non touching. A pass is forcing asking partner to bid 2 clubs and promises a 5 card suit so pass or correct after 2 clubs.

[croquetfan]

partner could not bid over the X with junk. Must XX for rescue and find a 4/4 fit. that might get penalised too but you are less likely to go 5 off.

[msjennifer]

Sirs,We open this hand the old fashioned way.5D is the bid asking partner to bid 6 with a top honor from AKQ.If he has a top honor AND an outside ACE he is supposed to cue bid that.Holding the K of D and heart Ace he bids 5H and opener can bid 7 if that's enough .Same with Spade ACE.

[Tramticket]

Sirs,We open this hand the old fashioned way.5D is the bid asking partner to bid 6 with a top honor from AKQ.If he has a top honor AND an outside ACE he is supposed to cue bid that.Holding the K of D and heart Ace he bids 5H and opener can bid 7 if that's enough .Same with Spade ACE.

Wrong thread?