Rebid anticipation

[apollo1201]

IMPs all green, you deal and pick up

 

Ax

KJ98xx

xx

AKx

 

When opening, you often need to anticipate the follow ups of the bidding sequence.

 

Some probably might have opened 1NT because the H are a bit light to rebid at the 3rd level over 1S or 1NT. Issue would be even trickier I guess with 36 in the M.

 

Anyway, partner bids 1S and not playing anything fancy, what is best? 2H, 3H, 2D maybe?

 

Not that it changed much the outcome here though (I chickened out and bid 2H as just green so less IMP and she could be light, she bid 4H and slam was way too far away).

[Cyberyeti]

I rebid 3♥, but I play weak NT and 3♥ is limited for us as we play a GF unbal 2N rebid for the death hand (among other things).

[apollo1201]

(delete duplicate)

[fromageGB]

Without "playing anything fancy" you can bid nothing other than 2♥ or 3♥, and I reckon you are not strong enough for 3♥.

If you bid 2♦ be prepared to play there in a 4-2 fit.

[The_Badger]

I'm not quite sure why you want to bid 2♦ on a doubleton here? (I'm sure you meant to write 2♣) That aside, you'd be dead unlucky not to come away with 4 ♥ tricks from that gappy suit, and add that to the three other tricks in your hand....

 

...3♥ rebid it is. A 2♥ rebid is a serious underbid.

[ggwhiz]

2♣ is a possibility, not 2♦ if you want to swing (maybe getting your partner to bid notrump) but with the ♥98 the hand is a pretty clear 2 1/2 ♥ bid imo.

[nullve]

When opening, you often need to anticipate the follow ups of the bidding sequence.

Anticipation should start with the system design. I think the standard (10)11-14(15) range for a 2♥ rebid is too wide, since Responder with an inviational hand knows that Opener is much more likely to have (10)11 than 14(15), and may therefore decide to violate a basic bidding principle and pass, especially NV, expecting 2♥ just making to be a more likely result than 4♥ making.

 

My own solution, mansplained, is

 

1♥-1♠; ?:

 

1N = Gazzilli (10-12-ish with 3-S5H or 16-18-ish, any)

2♣ = Muiderberg (13-15-ish)

2♦ = good standard 2♥ rebid or good standard 2♠ raise (so 13-15-ish)

2♥ = bad standard 2♥ rebid (so 10-12-ish)

2♠ = bad standard 2♠ rebid (so 10-12-ish)

2N+ = GF (19-21-ish).

 

Some probably might have opened 1NT because the H are a bit light to rebid at the 3rd level over 1S or 1NT. Issue would be even trickier I guess with 36 in the M.

This is a routine 1N opening for me playing with and against GiB. With slightly worse hearts I'd also open 1N playing standard 2/1 with a human. Opening 1♥ and then either underbidding 2♥, faking a side suit (2♣) or risking 3♥ opposite a weak non-fitting Responder, doesn't seem to work that well in IMO.

 

Opening 1N with 3622 is even more attractive, since we don't risk missing a 5-3 spade fit.

 

Anyway, partner bids 1S and not playing anything fancy, what is best? 2H, 3H, 2D maybe?

The hand and the heart suit are just about strong enough for a 3♥ rebid. With a king more I'd (try to*) force to game by rebidding 3♣ instead.

 

* There was a thread recently about whether a jump shift by Opener really is FG.

[PhilG007]

IMPs all green, you deal and pick up

 

Ax

KJ98xx

xx

AKx

 

When opening, you often need to anticipate the follow ups of the bidding sequence.

 

Some probably might have opened 1NT because the H are a bit light to rebid at the 3rd level over 1S or 1NT. Issue would be even trickier I guess with 36 in the M.

 

Anyway, partner bids 1S and not playing anything fancy, what is best? 2H, 3H, 2D maybe?

 

Not that it changed much the outcome here though (I chickened out and bid 2H as just green so less IMP and she could be light, she bid 4H and slam was way too far away).

 

With a 6 card major I will always open with it. as the length will provide a safe and sensible rebid. Anyone who opens 1NT on the hand given should be referred to a

good psychiatrist(!) The hand is unbalanced,,the diamond suit is woeful and the spades are threadbare. I intend to rebid 2♥ over any 1 or 2 level response from

partner thus accurately describing my hand, 6 + hearts and 15 hcp max. The ball will then be in partners court as to whether a game or slam is on .

[HardVector]

With a 6 card major I will always open with it. as the length will provide a safe and sensible rebid. Anyone who opens 1NT on the hand given should be referred to a

good psychiatrist(!) The hand is unbalanced,,the diamond suit is woeful and the spades are threadbare. I intend to rebid 2♥ over any 1 or 2 level response from

partner thus accurately describing my hand, 6 + hearts and 15 hcp max. The ball will then be in partners court as to whether a game or slam is on .

I pretty much agree with this, but I REALLY like aces and kings, and this hand is filled with those. The heart suit, while not solid, has texture with the J98 under the king. My first thought was to rebid 3h, but then I started questioning if it was that good. It would kind of come down to how I was doing that day. If I was playing well, I'd bid 3, if I wasn't bid 2. 10 and 15 pt hands are usually very hard to describe accurately if you can't open 1n with them.

[apollo1201]

Without "playing anything fancy" you can bid nothing other than 2♥ or 3♥, and I reckon you are not strong enough for 3♥.

If you bid 2♦ be prepared to play there in a 4-2 fit.

Actually I meant 2C as others pointed out. Where I could always stay stuck in a 33 fit 🤣🤣🤣

[msjennifer]

Sir,if a bid of 2C is a forcing bid then no harm in bidding it. If not then a 3H bid is a stand out bid.

[pescetom]

A bid of 3♥ has its risks, but can hardly be considered an overbid - K&R evaluates the hand as 16.85.

[rmnka447]

If the ♥ suit was a minor I'd seriously consider opening a strong 1 NT versus a jump rebid in the minor.

 

But I'm not going to suppress a 6 card major. So, it's I ♥ followed by 3 ♥ for me. I'll take my lumps if that doesn't turn out well.

[Winstonm]

Working prime cards and heart suit quality make this an easy upgrade so it is a 3H rebid for me.

[miamijd]

Playing standard 2/1, I'm tempted to say WTP? 1H is very clear as an opener, and after 1S, you are maximum for 2H. If partner can't move over 2H, you are unlikely to have a game (possible, yes, but not likely). With a ten-count or better, partner is going to bid again. Yes, partner could have

 

xxx

Qx

Axxx

Qxxx

 

But no system is perfect.

 

You aren't good enough for 3H. If partner passes, you are a level too high. If partner bids 3NT on a hand he would have passed 2H, you have probably exchanged +110 for -200, because if partner has a small stiff heart, you have no source of tricks. If partner bids 4H on a hand he would passed 2H, you will gain on hands like the one above, but you'll lose when partner has a little less or cards that aren't working so well:

 

Qxxx

xx

KQxx

Jxxx

 

All in all, you'll lose more often than you win. However, if your As were the Ah:

 

xx

AKJ98x

xx

AKx

 

I would bid 3H.

 

Cheers,

mike

[mikeh]

Is your bidding philosophy 'invite aggressively and accept conservatively' or 'invite conservatively, accept aggressively' or do you either not understand the difference or think that your style is 'down the middle'?

 

I strongly prefer 'invite heavy, accept light' and have elaborated on the reasons before. In essence, the two conflicting approaches generate the same number of bad results in terms of missing good games, but the invite heavy approach stays at the 2 level on hands where the invite light method plays at the 3-level, and on some of those boards a bad lie of the cards makes the 2-level a better spot. It is subtle, and so too are the differences.

 

Here, the opening hand is on the border between inviting via 3H and simply rebidding 2H. Given my style, it is clear to bid 2H, since I expect partner to raise 3H to game aggressively and this hand is just a tad too weak for my style.

 

How close is it? I would bid 3H if vulnerable. Note that I already expect partner to accept aggressively, so he should not be 'extra aggressive' because of the vulnerability. He simply looks at his hand and bids game if it is close, and passes 3H is it is clear to pass.

 

I would bid 3H not vulnerable if I had KJ109xx in hearts as opposed to KJ98xx.

[Dinarius]

1. If a partner opened anything other than 1❤️ with that hand, they would be looking for a new partner.

 

2. I’m tempted by a 3❤️ rebid, but 2❤️ shades it for me. With an extra point, e.g. KQ10 six times in ❤️, I rebid 3❤️, no question.

 

A nice hand, but just shy of 3❤️.

 

D.

[miamijd]

Is your bidding philosophy 'invite aggressively and accept conservatively' or 'invite conservatively, accept aggressively' or do you either not understand the difference or think that your style is 'down the middle'?

 

I strongly prefer 'invite heavy, accept light' and have elaborated on the reasons before. In essence, the two conflicting approaches generate the same number of bad results in terms of missing good games, but the invite heavy approach stays at the 2 level on hands where the invite light method plays at the 3-level, and on some of those boards a bad lie of the cards makes the 2-level a better spot. It is subtle, and so too are the differences.

 

Here, the opening hand is on the border between inviting via 3H and simply rebidding 2H. Given my style, it is clear to bid 2H, since I expect partner to raise 3H to game aggressively and this hand is just a tad too weak for my style.

 

How close is it? I would bid 3H if vulnerable. Note that I already expect partner to accept aggressively, so he should not be 'extra aggressive' because of the vulnerability. He simply looks at his hand and bids game if it is close, and passes 3H is it is clear to pass.

 

I would bid 3H not vulnerable if I had KJ109xx in hearts as opposed to KJ98xx.

 

Even if you are in the "invite light" camp (I'm not), I don't think this hand suffices. You will break even if your partner has 2 hearts (you will gain more often than not if partner can raise to game, but you will lose more often than not if partner passes). But you will lose big when partner has 0-1 hearts and fewer than 10 HCP, because you will almost always have been better off in 2H than in 3H or 3NT.

 

Cheers,

mike

[mikeh]

Even if you are in the "invite light" camp (I'm not), I don't think this hand suffices. You will break even if your partner has 2 hearts (you will gain more often than not if partner can raise to game, but you will lose more often than not if partner passes). But you will lose big when partner has 0-1 hearts and fewer than 10 HCP, because you will almost always have been better off in 2H than in 3H or 3NT.

 

Cheers,

mike

Well, it's tough to argue with you insofar as we both rebid 2H on the given hand.

 

However, I expect we differ somewhat in our expectation of partner's actions. You seem to imply that you expect a 3H bid to reach a lot of losing 3N contracts. Now, if I bid 3H on this hand, I'd tend to agree with you, but even then it would be close. Were I to have a holding where I think 3H would be correct....such as making the suit KJ109xx....and one of my handful of serious regular partners over the past 20 years (there have been only 4 such) were to bid 3N, I'd expect him to make far more than half the time. In contrast, were he to bid 4H, I would be far less optimistic, to the point that I'd expect there to be quite a few layouts where the contract had little, if any, play, but that I'd be making about half the games on average.

 

Why? Because, imo, responder should only bid 3N, as opposed to 4♥, with significant extras and, obviously some values in all side suits. Indeed, to bid 3N with a stiff heart requires considerable values, since one would tend to downgrade a stiff heart, and upgrade, for 3N as well as 4H, a doubleton heart, especially an honour. IOW, when it is close, and game is going to be bid, one should usually bid 4H even with a stiff rather than 3N.

 

I do know, from having defended a lot of dubious 3N contracts, that most players don't understand (or agree?) with this idea, but my experience has been that it is clearly best to raise if one is going to game, doesn't have extras, and has only a stiff heart. Not only does a thin 3N usually have at least one suit stopped at most one time, but a skilled declarer has more tools available, in the play, in a trump contract than in a notrump contract. In addition, a below strength 3N has a tendency to fail by more than a thin 4H.

 

I hope this explains, at least in part, why I value the heart 10 so highly :) I'm used to playing 6-1 fits here.

[miamijd]

Well, it's tough to argue with you insofar as we both rebid 2H on the given hand.

 

However, I expect we differ somewhat in our expectation of partner's actions. You seem to imply that you expect a 3H bid to reach a lot of losing 3N contracts. Now, if I bid 3H on this hand, I'd tend to agree with you, but even then it would be close. Were I to have a holding where I think 3H would be correct....such as making the suit KJ109xx....and one of my handful of serious regular partners over the past 20 years (there have been only 4 such) were to bid 3N, I'd expect him to make far more than half the time. In contrast, were he to bid 4H, I would be far less optimistic, to the point that I'd expect there to be quite a few layouts where the contract had little, if any, play, but that I'd be making about half the games on average.

 

Why? Because, imo, responder should only bid 3N, as opposed to 4♥, with significant extras and, obviously some values in all side suits. Indeed, to bid 3N with a stiff heart requires considerable values, since one would tend to downgrade a stiff heart, and upgrade, for 3N as well as 4H, a doubleton heart, especially an honour. IOW, when it is close, and game is going to be bid, one should usually bid 4H even with a stiff rather than 3N.

 

I do know, from having defended a lot of dubious 3N contracts, that most players don't understand (or agree?) with this idea, but my experience has been that it is clearly best to raise if one is going to game, doesn't have extras, and has only a stiff heart. Not only does a thin 3N usually have at least one suit stopped at most one time, but a skilled declarer has more tools available, in the play, in a trump contract than in a notrump contract. In addition, a below strength 3N has a tendency to fail by more than a thin 4H.

 

I hope this explains, at least in part, why I value the heart 10 so highly :) I'm used to playing 6-1 fits here.

 

Well, you said you'd bid 3H on KJ98xx if vulnerable, which I would never do. I wouldn't bid more than 2H on KJTxxx, either.

 

KJT9xx is a different story. Now you have four tricks opposite a stiff in 3NT, and only 1.5 losers opposite a small doubleton in a heart contract, so I would probably bid 3H.

 

As for 3NT, yes, I will probably bid it over 3H more than you will. For example, I will bid 3NT with a small stiff heart and an 8 count every time. The reason is that for a 3H rebid, I expect partner to have either (A) a really good hand (not some ratty 16) OR (B) a really good heart suit (a great 6 or 7+), in which case a great 15 is OK sometimes. With a good hand but not a fantastic heart suit, we have a decent chance to make 3NT opposite an 8-count with a stiff heart, and if we don't, we probably weren't going to make 3H, either. With a great heart suit, we have a very good shot to make a game.

 

Cheers,

mike

[dokoko]

Well, it's tough to argue with you insofar as we both rebid 2H on the given hand.

 

However, I expect we differ somewhat in our expectation of partner's actions. You seem to imply that you expect a 3H bid to reach a lot of losing 3N contracts. Now, if I bid 3H on this hand, I'd tend to agree with you, but even then it would be close. Were I to have a holding where I think 3H would be correct....such as making the suit KJ109xx....and one of my handful of serious regular partners over the past 20 years (there have been only 4 such) were to bid 3N, I'd expect him to make far more than half the time. In contrast, were he to bid 4H, I would be far less optimistic, to the point that I'd expect there to be quite a few layouts where the contract had little, if any, play, but that I'd be making about half the games on average.

 

Why? Because, imo, responder should only bid 3N, as opposed to 4♥, with significant extras and, obviously some values in all side suits. Indeed, to bid 3N with a stiff heart requires considerable values, since one would tend to downgrade a stiff heart, and upgrade, for 3N as well as 4H, a doubleton heart, especially an honour. IOW, when it is close, and game is going to be bid, one should usually bid 4H even with a stiff rather than 3N.

 

I do know, from having defended a lot of dubious 3N contracts, that most players don't understand (or agree?) with this idea, but my experience has been that it is clearly best to raise if one is going to game, doesn't have extras, and has only a stiff heart. Not only does a thin 3N usually have at least one suit stopped at most one time, but a skilled declarer has more tools available, in the play, in a trump contract than in a notrump contract. In addition, a below strength 3N has a tendency to fail by more than a thin 4H.

 

I hope this explains, at least in part, why I value the heart 10 so highly :) I'm used to playing 6-1 fits here.

 

Very good point!

[Dumoti]

Is your bidding philosophy 'invite aggressively and accept conservatively' or 'invite conservatively, accept aggressively' or do you either not understand the difference or think that your style is 'down the middle'?

 

I strongly prefer 'invite heavy, accept light' and have elaborated on the reasons before. In essence, the two conflicting approaches generate the same number of bad results in terms of missing good games, but the invite heavy approach stays at the 2 level on hands where the invite light method plays at the 3-level, and on some of those boards a bad lie of the cards makes the 2-level a better spot. It is subtle, and so too are the differences.

 

Here, the opening hand is on the border between inviting via 3H and simply rebidding 2H. Given my style, it is clear to bid 2H, since I expect partner to raise 3H to game aggressively and this hand is just a tad too weak for my style.

 

How close is it? I would bid 3H if vulnerable. Note that I already expect partner to accept aggressively, so he should not be 'extra aggressive' because of the vulnerability. He simply looks at his hand and bids game if it is close, and passes 3H is it is clear to pass.

 

I would bid 3H not vulnerable if I had KJ109xx in hearts as opposed to KJ98xx.

Since you mentioned at https://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/79463-an-opening-hand/page__view__findpost__p__960392 that you open pretty much any 11-point hand, presumably holding

 

♠xx

♥Kxxxxx

♦xx

♣AKJ

 

you would open 1♥ and later rebid, I suppose, 2♥ because, as you pointed out, "You are a bridge player."

 

Apparently, you would also bid the same way with the hand in question, which is fully an ace stronger. I can't help but wonder how partner knows what to do with your bids considering the range is so wide.

[dokoko]

Since you mentioned at https://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/79463-an-opening-hand/page__view__findpost__p__960392 that you open pretty much any 11-point hand, presumably holding

 

♠xx

♥Kxxxxx

♦xx

♣AKJ

 

you would open 1♥ and later rebid, I suppose, 2♥ because, as you pointed out, "You are a bridge player."

 

Apparently, you would also bid the same way with the hand in question, which is fully an ace stronger. I can't help but wonder how partner knows what to do with your bids considering the range is so wide.

I guess mikeh and his partner are good enough to be able to handle that (btw I claim that for me, too). If you think you can't you'd better open conservatively.

 

Bridge isn't played in a perfect world. It's all about doing things that work out well more often than not.

[phntmshark]

I like my fair share of offshape 1NT openers, but laughing at the people who suggest opening 1NT with a 6 card major and 2 doubletons, 1 of which is worthless and the other of which is the other major. Can almost guarantee you are getting transferred into the doubleton spade.

[nullve]

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