Multi Level Confusion

[FelicityR]

I played a session at the club recently and this hand proved very problematic. Unfortunately, my partner (not my regular partner) and I came up against the best pair and they play the Multi, and the only pair to do so. We had not discussed any defence to this, except a immediate double of 2♦ showed a takeout of ♥s, and everything else was natural. I held the following hand:-

 

[hv=pc=n&s=shat64dakqjcaqt53&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=2d(Multi)p2hp2sdr3cp]133|200[/hv]

 

I had a good hand and felt it was best to allow the Multi bidders to go through their relay and bid on the second round, fully expecting opener's suit to be ♠s, as indeed it was. Then I came alive with a Takeout Double. I suppose both my partner and myself were at fault not asking what the Redouble meant, but when partner bid 3♣ I really did not know what to do. As always your replies will be appreciated.

[nullve]

Does

 

[hv=pc=n&s=shat64dakqjcaqt53&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=2d(Multi)p2hp2sdr(forgot to ask about it)3cp?]133|200[/hv]

 

have to be very different from

 

[hv=pc=n&s=shat64dakqjcaqt53&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=2s(Weak Two)dr(forgot to ask about it)3cp?]133|200[/hv]

 

?

[helene_t]

Do you play lebensohl? If so, start with 3S and continue showing controls.

 

If not i think I would just bid 5c

[mikeh]

I'd really be inclined to place LHO with long spades for the redouble, if only because I can't see how he can have hcp. However, given that the opps presumably know their system, I would ask.

 

If all I learn is that LHO expects to make, that doesn't help much. If it means 'I have a great hand, expect to make, and am interested in doubling' than I pull in my horns.

 

Otherwise, I drive to slam, since I don't expect partner to realize how good slam is when he holds xxx xxx xx Kxxxx.

 

I don't think lebensohl matters, other than that I'd be pushing hard for grand were lebensohl to apply...all I need is a heart cuebid. We could be cold for grand, and certainly will often be cold or have great play for small even with a hand that would not qualify for a lebensohl value-showing 3C.

 

I start with the obvious 3S and then what I do next depends on my view of partner. Will he take 3S as unambiguously agreeing clubs, such that 4D by me is a cue over his 4C?

 

The only time I slow down is if he bids 3N over 3S, suggesting wastage. My 4C is a slam move and I will respect 5C after that.

[dsLawsd]

Most events in ACBL require the opponents to provide a recommended defense without your asking. If your club does not it should.

 

Here. bidding 5C seems right.

[Tramticket]

It isn't easy when you haven't discussed a defence. In my opinion, any meaning asigned to a double of 2D should also include strong hands. (1) The 2D bid is unlikely to be 100% forcing, so you might not get a second call and (2) the second round double will have to do too much work (here for example, I'm guessing that you would find a double of 2S with 11 HIP and this shape? But if you eliminate 20+ hands from the second round double and then use Lebensohl, you will have a more manageable range.

 

Personally our double of 2D is either 13-16 balanced or 20+ any shape (with a 2NT overall 17-19). I don't mind that the double shows a take-out of hearts (it sounds like a useful bid), but I think a double should also show a strong hand type. Given your methods, I would have doubled 2D and then cue-bid spades (a second double would presumably have been penalty?),

 

What was the redouble? It is a bit odd. We would use it to show strength and a willingness to double, but there doesn't seem to be enough points. If this is what opps intended, then partner has a bust.

[Tramticket]

Most events in ACBL require the opponents to provide a recommended defense without your asking.

 

Apparently you can consult your notes at Orlando too!!! Crazy.

[rmnka447]

I'd also start with 3 ♠ over partner's 3 ♣ bid. This is a huge hand and partner has presumably shown 4+ ♣. So why not let partner in on the secret by cueing the opponent's suit?

[igt3]

Since partner is bidding 3C voluntarily I suppose it denies 4 hearts and shows some values. I would bid 4S I think. 6C is probably not far away.

[DozyDom]

Since partner is bidding 3C voluntarily I suppose it denies 4 hearts and shows some values. I would bid 4S I think. 6C is probably not far away.

If your partner thinks the redouble indicated a big hand with desire to bash your partnership with a hammer, then 3C doesn't necessarily show values.

[Cyberyeti]

If your partner thinks the redouble indicated a big hand with desire to bash your partnership with a hammer, then 3C doesn't necessarily show values.

 

True, but if you have the doctrine over redoubles that you don't bid unless you have something to say, ie you pass bad balanced hands there will be some shape there and at least 5 clubs.

[pescetom]

Apparently you can consult your notes at Orlando too!!! Crazy.

Not just in Orlando but in most if not all the world: it's part of WBF systems policy. Technically, your defence becomes part of the opponents' CC, so you can consult it during the auction.

[Tramticket]

Not just in Orlando but in most if not all the world: it's part of WBF systems policy. Technically, your defence becomes part of the opponents' CC, so you can consult it during the auction.

Yes, but Orlando is a world championship. Not a supervised practice session helping the beginners to transition to proper duplicate bridge.

[sfi]

Not just in Orlando but in most if not all the world: it's part of WBF systems policy.

 

That's just bizarre. The regs even specify that multi isn't brown sticker but still allow a written defence to it, which makes it even stranger.

[dokoko]

I see no great problem in treating 2♦ as virtually forcing here if it isn't a weak-only multi.

 

IMO, advancer's bids after a strength-showing redouble should be defined as follows:

 

pass = penalties, wants to defend (otherwise responder may bluff you out of your best option)

2NT = two places to play or weak with hearts

3♣, 3♦ = natural, can be very weak

3♥ = natural, constructive

 

If the redouble shows a big fit instead, you should ignore the redouble and play your normal structure (pass is still penalties).

 

So I would bid 4♠, agreeing clubs and showing slam interest with shortness. With two useful cards partner should bid slam.

[maartenxq]

but when partner bid 3♣ I really did not know what to do. As always your replies will be appreciated.

You could ask now what the redouble meant. As opponents know how to play there are two, sensible meanings: strong and doubling you for business or A/K/Q X ♠. Styrong is relative here, he did not bid 2 nt as a game try.

As you are not going to defend 3 ♠ I think you most make one more move: 3 ♠. I partner bids 4 ♣now the prudent thhing is to pass, b ut I would be tempted to bid 5 all the same.

 

Maarten Baltussen

[bluechip10]

I played a session at the club recently and this hand proved very problematic. Unfortunately, my partner (not my regular partner) and I came up against the best pair and they play the Multi, and the only pair to do so. We had not discussed any defence to this, except a immediate double of 2♦ showed a takeout of ♥s, and everything else was natural. I held the following hand:-

 

[hv=pc=n&s=shat64dakqjcaqt53&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=2d(Multi)p2hp2sdr3cp]133|200[/hv]

 

I had a good hand and felt it was best to allow the Multi bidders to go through their relay and bid on the second round, fully expecting opener's suit to be ♠s, as indeed it was. Then I came alive with a Takeout Double. I suppose both my partner and myself were at fault not asking what the Redouble meant, but when partner bid 3♣ I really did not know what to do. As always your replies will be appreciated.

Sometimes common sense prevails. You know that the opener's partner must bid again. Therefore, a double of 2dia would show a diamond suit. Otherwise, pass. Let the opener's partner bid anything. Then use that bid to proceed. In this case, I would cuebid three hearts, showing a huge hand. Then use common sense. The key is to let the opps reveal their hands. And even the declarer play with be easier of the opp's bidding.

[Cyberyeti]

I think your defence is part of the issue, you have no way of differentiating what you have from a lot of other hands that you have to bid the same way.

 

We play X as really big or a weak NT type, so partner would know we had a huge hand when we double twice.

 

Whether 2N should be lebensohl style or scramble from partner is not totally clear, and that makes a difference to what 3♣ shows.

 

If I think partner has 5 clubs, I bid 6, you could easily be making 7 opposite xxx, any 5 small, Kxxxx, there's something to be said for 4♠(exclusion) and bidding 7 opposite 1. Partner most likely has at least 3 spades and all you need is trumps 2-1 to make 6 opposite 0 and 7 opposite 1.

[miamijd]

The simplest effective defense to the Multi (and by far the most common here in the USA) is ACBL Option 2. That is, X=13-15 balanced OR any strong hand; everything else on the 2 and 3 level is natural; and 4 of either minor is a sort of Leaping Michaels. With a minimum takeout X of a major, you pass and then double that major on the back end if appropriate. With a good takeout X of a major, you X the 2D bid and then X again on the back end. The responses to some of the sequences get a little involved, especially when the 13-15 balanced X occurs, but everything is pretty intuitive, especially if you play Lebensohl.

 

Your hand is much too strong to pass the first time. For one thing, the Multi responder is allowed to pass the 2d call (very rare, but it happens). More importantly, however, if you pass and then X, you have put too much stress on that call (it could be 13-22, and partner can't tell the difference). Pass then X should be a minimum X; X then X again is a stronger hand.

 

So I would X the 2D call, and then when it went (2H) - P - (2S), I would X again, showing a very good takeout X of spades. Now you are in good shape. Partner's 3C bid would show a constructive hand with clubs. You could try either 3S, 4S, or 6C. I think I would bid 3S and hope I did NOT hear 3NT. If partner had a weak hand with clubs, he'd bid 2NT Leb. Then you would bid 3S to show this hand.

 

On the auction you gave, however, I would jump to 4S over the 3C bid. This has to be a splinter. I'm not sure your partner will ever read you for this big a hand, so I doubt he'll bid more than 5C, but 4S would be my call.

 

And for what it's worth, I suspect the XX showed lots of spades. Probably 4S would have been a better call.

 

Cheers,

Mike

[neilkaz]

If the XX was suggesting a good hand with penalty interest, 3♣ from PD could be on very little and he's just trying to rescue to his best suit. I'd ask what XX means and then I think 3♠ is probably enough to get PD excited if he has anything.

[The_Badger]

I think the adverse vulnerability comes into the equation here too. I used to know a number of players who would open the multi on a five card suit with 5431 even at red/white, so West's XX could be - although it isn't - more like a support redouble given the red/white status. With points, but not enough strength to bid a forcing 2NT on the first round in response to the multi, but with some spade support.

 

I think South needs to proceed with caution here. I like Mike's (miamijd) splinter of 4♠ but if partner says 5♣ in response, I don't think you have enough to bid one more.

[pescetom]

Yes, but Orlando is a world championship. Not a supervised practice session helping the beginners to transition to proper duplicate bridge.

The WBF certainly weren't thinking about beginners when they defined the brown sticker policy. Probably they thought that memorizing defences against every possible destructive opening should not be necessary.

[pescetom]

Duplicate

[pescetom]

That's just bizarre. The regs even specify that multi isn't brown sticker but still allow a written defence to it, which makes it even stranger.

Originally it was a brown sticker. Logically it still is, but they made it an exception. The fact that they left the ability to play a written defence suggests a guilty conscience.

[sfi]

The WBF certainly weren't thinking about beginners when they defined the brown sticker policy. Probably they thought that memorizing defences against every possible destructive opening should not be necessary.

 

It really shouldn't be necessary, because it's straightforward to have general rules that cover the full range of strange two-level bids. People who play in Australia encounter this so often at club level that even newish players are comfortable defending against them.

 

The issue isn't one of complexity - it's one of familiarity. You suggest that open 2H to show 5/5 in clubs and spades, or a weak hand with diamonds, or a strong hand with hearts or a balanced 23-24 (for example) is "destructive". It's not - it's just different to what you are used to playing against. These conventions all allow the pair to show a wider range of hands and to try and make life difficult for the opponents at the same time. That's not inherently destructive - that's exactly what every agreement should do.