inquiry Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 [hv=d=w&v=n&s=sa9ha8752d965ct93]133|100|Scoring: IMPBPO-001-GWest North East South Pass 1♦ Pass 1♥ 1♠ 2♣ 2♠ ? [/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 2NT. Partner has both minors, however he could be x=x=4=5. 2NT is the best way to ensure that we declare our eight card fit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 2NT I hope this is correct usage of Bergen's good/bad 2nt. If so, then p relays to 3c and I bid 3d showing weakish hand. Most difficult hand of set. Must admit have seen many forum posts on Good/Bad 2nt and they just seem incorrect. Confusion seems to be when is it on or off? I am unsure myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 well i voted pass, but who knows? vulnerable at imps, i'm not real keen on bidding on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Double. Translates into "a smattering of points and no good bid". Pard - "do something intelligent". I won't be upset with any call be makes, including pass. By the way, a 2N rebid by pard should be scrambling. Pard can hold 5-4, 5-5, or 4-5 in the minors. I want to compete to 3 of a minor with my ruffing value and two bullets. As the system develops, I predict 2N will become good/bad anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 I'll bid 3♦ here. If 2NT is good/bad and it applies in this auction, I'll agree that could be a better call. Some other points: If 2NT is natural, this is the wrong hand for it (too weak, too poor stoppers, to suit-oriented). My partners and I do not open 1♦ with 4-5 in the minors. I have seen few good results from bidding this way (too often partner corrects to the shorter suit). Since 4441 is not really a possibility in this auction, I think partner's sequence guarantees five card diamonds. I suppose we could win the post-mortem by doubling as "do something intelligent" and then load the blame on partner. But I think double here should be more penalty-oriented -- not a hand with a good minor fit and a couple aces. Obviously double's not based on a trump stack, but I'd expect a spade holding more like KQx than Ax (i.e. something with lower ODR). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 I think dbl is the right choice. Pd's 2c only shows 5-4minors, but didnt show which minor is longer. So I will let pd to pick a minor. If pd has good defensive strength. I dont mind he converts it to penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 I voted 3♦... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 I'd bid 3♦ which probably makes your vote wrong Free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 a clear 3♦, maybe didn't read the system too carefully, was a 4-5 possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Double (again!), yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 woo hooo, i'm the only pass :o can't wait to read what beverly says 'bout that heheh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elianna Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 woo hooo, i'm the only pass :) can't wait to read what beverly says 'bout that heheh You may be the only one to own up to it. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 sorry to disappoint, but you're not alone. I, too, voted pass. I have no honors in either of partner's suits, not sure that I want to commit to 9 tricks unless P can bid again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 2NT. Partner has both minors, however he could be x=x=4=5. 2NT is the best way to ensure that we declare our eight card fit... My old, old goren precision partner made a good point. If opener is 4-5 and has made a free 2club bid they deserve to play in 3D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatrix45 Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 :P Without a good rebid, partner could have passed over 1♠. If she is not shy, why should I be? Two bullets and three diamonds, bridge is a simple game, just prefer with 3♦. Odds are they have a nine card spade fit, will bid 3♠, and we will have to go quietly. Maybe we can beat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoeless Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 Goota pass from me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 Double for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 I do not like bidding any number of NT here: if pard has nothing in spades, the hand will pay 2+ tricks better in any suit. Double is ok, if it shows "cards" , but to me it seems more like penalty in this sequence, so I would be really hesitant for such a bid, if it can be interpreted as pure penalty rather than cooperative. Therefore, if I am afraid of doubling, little is left, because I believe any bid of 3 of minor would be an underbid. With 2 Aces oposite an opener and a moderate fit in minors, I want to try game though, so I decided to cue 3S to ask for stopper: if pard has something, our Ax will be appreciated :-) If not, I'll play 4 of a minor: a silly contract, but Ax stopper vs pard's xxx or xx rates to be an even worse 3NT contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 Again, it would be great if the panel could agree on the meaning of a double in auctions like this. If double would not be clear to partner, then I would not double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 I voted pass but I suddenly realize that Lary Cohen would have bid 2NT. Don't u think so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 I voted pass but I suddenly realize that Lary Cohen would have bid 2NT. Don't u think so? if still playing with bergen, by all means he would... remember, it was bergen who named them OBAR bids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestar Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Double is perfect. It should be takeout as we have not found our fit but they have found theirs. Partner will bid his better minor and we will get to the right spot. I don't like 2N even if we are sure it's good/bad--partner will bid 3C whenever he would have passed a natural weak 3C bid, even with five or six diamonds. He has to bid this way as I mgiht be bidding 2N with good club support and nothing in diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 [hv=d=w&v=n&s=sa9ha8752d965ct93]133|100|Scoring: IMPBPO-001-GWest North East South Pass 1♦ Pass 1♥ 1♠ 2♣ 2♠ ? [/hv] The last hand presents several questions, would they raise diamonds, double or pass. Aces are good for both defense and offense, so the offensive/defensive ratio on this hand is roughly equal. But one thing for sure, partner does not have three card heart support since BBO-Advanced uses support doubles. The majority of the panel choose to be active on this auction, and for most, that meant bidding 3♦. While many will open 1♦ with 4♦ and 5♣, so questions might exist about which minor would provide the best fit, Justin takes this question head on. Jlall voted for 3♦, saying “Interesting hand. Partner freely bid 2♣, so what does this suggest? No I'm not suggesting it shows extra values, however I do think partner has 5 diamonds. Why? Well if partner was 4144 he would have passed. If he was 1444 he would raise hearts. If he was 1345 he would have made a support double. If he was 2245 he would have opened 1C planning to bid NT. So that leaves, 3145. Well, I tend to open these hands 1♣ anyways, but even if partner likes 1♦ he should pass 1♠. So I think I can safely compete to 3♦. I don't really want to sell out to 2♠ especially since partner will most likely not balance with 2254 mins as he's said his piece. Not overly concerned about going for a digit with 2 bullets, however if they DBL I will get concerned.” Other voters mentioned the two aces as reasons to raise diamonds. Walddk’s by saying “Not exactly great cards in partner's suits, but I have enough to compete because of the 2 aces. Give me KJ, KJ instead and I have no errand.” And Cascade, with “With two aces and a fit we are worth another competitive effort.” Beverly considered 3♦ here the conservative action (other thought pass was the conservative one). Phicro echoed the bid of 3♦ for the simplest of reasons, “Non forcing, to avoid opponents playing 2S”. The two odd men out on bidding 3♦ were Luis and Ng, who both decided against raising ♦’s. Gabor, went with a double, explaining, “ Not penalty. Partner has 0-2 hearts, because Support Dbl is on. This Dbl promises good hand without 4-card support in minors. 3♦ would be fatal, if partner has 4 diamonds and 5 clubs (I would open 1♣ in that case, but you never know). 5m is possible, if partner have cards and/or shape (65m's), aces are important at 5 level and I have 2 of them.” So Gabor was aggressive with the double, Luis, on the other hand went more passive by choosing to pass, explaining, “ Pass; I have nothing in the minors and I don't really think xxx vs xxx is a good reason to show a preference. The two aces are tempting but unless partner can bid something again I don't think we have anything. Other bids will tend to force this hand beyond what is worth. I like the chances I have defending a spade parts-core especially if partner has short hearts. ” You know, Luis’s position makes a whole lot of sense to me, and on the real hand, pass here worked out best. But still, phicro’s view about not letting them play 2♠ carries the day here and gets the full score. The scores on this hand are…Votes, scores, Panel, Members 3♦ 100 7 Dbl 40 1 Pass 40 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Interesting, the issue of Good/bad 2nt was not mentioned by one Master and gets zero score. For a convention that has been around over 20 years and not get mentioned is interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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