The price of Landy

[pescetom]

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MPs, nobody vul, NS are playing 5cM strong NT 15-17 with a promissory Stayman.

North is dealer and opens 1NT, you are in East.

You don't have a 2-level bid to show 6-card clubs, and your hand looks comfortable in defence, so you pass.

Maybe there was a case for bidding 3♣ natural all the same, but that is a side issue.

South and West pass too.

Your lead against 1NT?

[kuhchung]

4th best club!

[Cyberyeti]

4th best club!

 

Agreed, we'll prob find partner has JTx and this is the 7th trick, but ♣xx and an entry with declarer having KJx is too likely not to lead one.

[Tramticket]

I'm guessing that 4th best club (or 5th best, depending on methods) was not successful, else why are you posting the question?

 

Yes, there is a risk of giving declarer an undeserved trick, which might be key at match-points. But against that you have the possibility of setting up two or three length winners. We expect that this is a normal contract and most defenders will be faced with exactly the same lead problem. I expect the room to lead a club and I have no reason to select anything else.

[pescetom]

I'm guessing that 4th best club (or 5th best, depending on methods) was not successful, else why are you posting the question?

 

Yes, there is a risk of giving declarer an undeserved trick, which might be key at match-points.

Correct, but as it turned out giving declarer an undeserved trick in clubs wasn't the problem.

 

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[edit: error in diagram corrected]

 

After a ♣4 lead West covered dummy's T with Q declarer playing 7, then returned the 9 over which Declarer played the J.

East covered with K, thought for a while about the four possible scenarios and then played the A.

[gordontd]

Correct, but as it turned out giving declarer an undeserved trick in clubs wasn't the problem.

 

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After a ♣4 lead West covered dummy's T with Q declarer playing 7, then returned the 9 over which Declarer played the J.

East covered with K, thought for a while about the four possible scenarios and then played the A.

Why is that a problem? Doesn't West play the 8 under it? What have I missed?

 

[EDIT] it turns out the original hand was misquoted and has now been corrected so my intervention can be disregarded.

[Cyberyeti]

Why is that a problem? Doesn't West play the 8 under it? What have I missed?

 

No problem anyway, he leads the 2 to W's 8 and W returns a diamond, declarer cashes his 5 tricks that he can't be denied

[Defcon0]

Why is that a problem? Doesn't West play the 8 under it? What have I missed?

 

Different hand from initial one given.

 

AK6432

 

VS

 

AQ5432

 

Still, if the 2nd version is right, win K, play A and trust pard to unblock.

 

If 1st case is true then like was already pointed out. Clear clubs and pard will return a diamond.

[pescetom]

Different hand from initial one given.

Oops. Now corrected, thanks.

[Gordon, please edit or remove your quote of the hand to avoid confusion]

[msjennifer]

Playing Landy if one has the hand given one has to play in 3C if he wishes to.But the same logic can be applied to club suit and Stayman also.And just by the way, we open 1D and not one trump holding both majors with decent cards.Playing Super Precision we shall be playing the hand in 2H or allow opponents to play in 3C if they come in.Holding the given corrected hand we bid 2S a transfer to 3C ( at favourable or both NV vulnerability only.)I do not get why the post is labeled as problem with Landy.Suits can always get blocked.An anonymous partner held KQ82 of Spades in a contract of 3NT by his LHO.I led the Spade 4 (4th highest) .He played the Q which won the trick.At trick 2 he played the 2 of spade as he wanted to show a holding of 4 cards and curtains! I held A7543 ,the suit was blocked and the contract was easily made.This partner of mine, believe me ,has been playing Bridge for the last 60 (sixty)years ! I have since, refused his invitations.

[pescetom]

Playing Landy if one has the hand given one has to play in 3C if he wishes to.But the same logic can be applied to club suit and Stayman also.And just by the way, we open 1D and not one trump holding both majors with decent cards.Playing Super Precision we shall be playing the hand in 2H or allow opponents to play in 3C if they come in.Holding the given corrected hand we bid 2S a transfer to 3C ( at favourable or both NV vulnerability only.)I do not get why the post is labeled as problem with Landy.

The post is labelled as 'price of Landy' because playing 2♣ as natural it would be automatic for EW to find the ♣ fit. East had a 3♣ bid available which is more or less equivalent to your transfer, but he didn't feel it was quite justified, even at both NV - maybe he was wrong. NS too were hampered by their methods, as playing a more modern Stayman it would have been automatic to find the ♥ fit. Ironically neither side would have had problems the other way round.

In this case you would have done badly to allow opponents to play in 3♣ as it makes and so does 3♥ although not so easily. At national level, 3♣ was made at 25% of tables, 2♥ at 12%, 3♥ (or 2+1) at 6%, 1NT at 11% and 2NT (1+1) at 7%. This table finished 1NT+1 which was an ugly 19% score for EW.

[gszes]

Even if the suit blocks all east has to do is lead the LOWEST club to partner (4th round) asking for a dia switch and 1n goes down 2 maybe not a top score but certainly reasonable

[TylerE]

The post is labelled as 'price of Landy' because playing 2♣ as natural it would be automatic for EW to find the ♣ fit.

 

Hardly automatic. Playing clubs at matchpoints is bad.

 

If we're taking the same number of tricks on defense against 1N as we are declaring 2♣, which isn't unlikely, 2♣ is a bottom.

[Cyberyeti]

We open 1♥ with the N hand so will be in 2 or 3 hearts, but there really isn't a problem even if you block the clubs in 1N, it's beginner stuff not to have a suit preference inference on the 4th club to find the diamond switch for -2

[nekthen]

Maybe it is best to duck trick 2

[Cyberyeti]

Maybe it is best to duck trick 2

 

Absolutely not, you now can't beat 1N when they play spades. You can see even if you block the suit you're fine if partner plays a diamond and has an entry.

[rmnka447]

Hardly automatic. Playing clubs at match points is bad.

 

If we're taking the same number of tricks on defense against 1N as we are declaring 2♣, which isn't unlikely, 2♣ is a bottom.

 

If you could bid 2 ♣ natural, it doesn't mean you will play there. If you have a fit with partner and do play there, it's possible that partner might have a short hand ruff to increase your total tricks. It's also possible the opponents will compete further. And if you pass, how will you feel if the opponents transfer into 2 of a major, make it, and you find that 3 ♣ is cold your way.

[sfi]

After a ♣4 lead West covered dummy's T with Q declarer playing 7, then returned the 9 over which Declarer played the J.

East covered with K, thought for a while about the four possible scenarios and then played the A.

 

West would have done better to return the C6. Now East can lead a low club at trick 3, which unblocks the suit if partner has K986 and sets up the suit and asks for a diamond switch if declarer has J987.

[pescetom]

If you could bid 2 ♣ natural, it doesn't mean you will play there. If you have a fit with partner and do play there, it's possible that partner might have a short hand ruff to increase your total tricks. It's also possible the opponents will compete further. And if you pass, how will you feel if the opponents transfer into 2 of a major, make it, and you find that 3 ♣ is cold your way.

Or if they Stayman into 2 of a major, make it, and you find that 3 ♣ is cold your way - which is what will have happened with this hand at many tables.

[nekthen]

Absolutely not, you now can't beat 1N when they play spades. You can see even if you block the suit you're fine if partner plays a diamond and has an entry.

 

true. We need 6 tricks in clubs.

 

I have A532 and the 8 and 6 are out there after 2 tricks

1. North has both. Contract cant be beaten.

2. North has one of them, contract can be beaten by cashing the A

3. North is void. I lead a low ♣ and W wins and switches to a ♦

 

I believe that West made a mistake returning the 9 as this indicates originally holding 3 cards. If he returned the 6 (the original 4th), East should get it right and lead a low card back

[pescetom]

true. We need 6 tricks in clubs.

East couldn't be sure of that at the time, of course. But giving up even 1 trick at MP is rarely wise.

 

I have A532 and the 8 and 6 are out there after 2 tricks

1. North has both. Contract cant be beaten.

2. North has one of them, contract can be beaten by cashing the A

3. North is void. I lead a low ♣ and N wins and switches to a ♦

That's pretty much what East was thinking.

More precisely:

1. North has both. We're in trouble, cashing the A at least guarantees a trick

2a. North has the 8, contract can only be beaten by cashing the A

2b. North has the 6, contract can be beaten by cashing the A or by leading a low ♣

3. North is void. Ideal is to lead a low ♣, but if I cash the A then lead low ♣ partner can still switch to ♦

 

 

I believe that West made a mistake returning the 9 as this indicates originally holding 3 cards. If he returned the 6 (the original 4th), East should get it right and lead a low card back

I think you and @sfi are right here, the 9 was not ideal.

But even so East's play of the 2 after the A should have been sufficient to obtain a ♦ switch.

Unfortunately West read it as "a red suit" and switched to ♥, misled by North who had cannily discarded ♥7.

[bluechip10]

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MPs, nobody vul, NS are playing 5cM strong NT 15-17 with a promissory Stayman.

North is dealer and opens 1NT, you are in East.

You don't have a 2-level bid to show 6-card clubs, and your hand looks comfortable in defence, so you pass.

Maybe there was a case for bidding 3♣ natural all the same, but that is a side issue.

South and West pass too.

Your lead against 1NT?

I have a theory that I have used for years. First, DONT is a superior convention over strong 1NT openers. Anyway, I prefer to pass with minor suits and bid with majors. I only bid good suits (two out of the top three honors) or a longer than 6 card suit and I reduce the requirements. My lead: the 4 of clubs.

[bonnylee]

I'll lead a major;HJ.