BPO-001-D

[inquiry]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sa542h7dqjt5c8754]133|100|Scoring: IMP

BPO-001-D

West North East South

    -     1♦     Dbl    ? [/hv]

[hrothgar]

1S.

 

Same as I would have bid without the double. The hand evaluates as a limit raise in support of Diamonds, so a preemptive Diamond raise is right out.

[luke warm]

1♠

[mike777]

1S

Expect Unanimous poll.

 

Look forward to the 2D and 1nt bidders.

[pclayton]

1♠. Just enough for this and later diamond support. Qxxx, x, QJxx, xxxx and its a 2♦ call.

[Free]

1♠, what else except a psych perhaps?

[jillybean]

1♠

[Fluffy]

1♠ also, besides the ones who will psyke 1♥ I don't see any other possible bid.

[HeartA]

1♠ for me as well.

[luke warm]

1♠, what else except a psych perhaps?

hehe.. funny you should mention that, in my msg to elliana with my answers i voted 1S and said "but i might open 1H as a psych" :o

[Double !]

It's still a unanimous vote. One more vote for a shovel.

[Gerben42]

I have 4 cards in ♠. Partner might also. I bid ♠. Seems logical, doesn't it?

[Chamaco]

I psyched 1H.

[han]

1S

[helene_t]

3♦.

[han]

I don't believe you Helene, you are just saying that because you don't want an unanimous poll. B)

[helene_t]

I'm probably wrong, it's just that I'm used to playing more or less Fony Club style, so that 1♦ tends to be unballanced. I don't bid 1♠ on a 4-card unless I really want a spade lead and/or don't mind partner raising on a 3-card. And Pass, rdbl or 1NT make no sense.

 

The alternative is 2♦, hoping to be able to bid 2♠ next turn. But since you all bid 1♠ I should probably do that as well.

[inquiry]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sa542h7dqjt5c8754]133|100|Scoring: IMP

BPO-001-D

West North East South

    - 1♦ Dbl ? [/hv]

 

Ok, the easiest one of the set. I wondered if anyone would forgo the obvious 1♠ bid and raise diamonds. I thought there might be two different schools of thought here, the first to ignore the double and bid naturally, the second, over the double, to support with support in case the auction becomes competitive. Instead, the answer among the experts was as close to a unanimous no as you can get. Speaking for the huge majority in favor of 1♠ was, luis who correctly noted that 1♠ “ Shows 4 or more spades and doesn't promise more than what I have. This was echoed by ng who said, “1♠; Why not? This is a limit bid, forcing 1 round. 4+ spades and only 6-9(10) points, because Rdbl promises 10+ HCP.”

 

Others among the expert panel, while still voting for 1♠, considered the possibility of 2♦ response. Kraft said, “1♠, although there is not much wrong with 2♦.” And Roland, who actually found something wrong with 2♦, for him it denies a major. He planned to “ignore the double, . . . I am prepared to support diamonds later unless opps compete too vigorously in hearts.” Phicro also went with 1♠, and had a clearer answer as to why, “1♠ F1, we can have a good spade fit despite the takeout double, and it's always easier to compete in ♠ than in ♦ over ♥ !!! ” That is simple logic we can all agree with.

 

The problem with 1♠ is that if LHO bids 2♥ and partner doesn’t have ♠ support, you maybe shut out of the subsequent auction. When an auction is about to turn competitive (And looking at your weak hand and short hearts, you figure this will be one of those cases), there is some sound logic to consider raising with support. On the otherhand, the problem with raising diamonds immediately, is you might miss a better contract in spades, maybe even game. Only one panelist actually choose to forgo bidding spades, and instead raise diamonds. Cascade explained his choice this way. ” 2♦. With a minimum hand I will tell partner about our fit immediately. I hope inverted raises are off in competition. Partner is much more likely to be interested in our four diamonds than our spades especially if the auction becomes very competitive. ”

 

The one thing that Wayne’s bid did, was serve as a prophey fulfilling for Justin’s comment about this hand. So we will allow Justin to have the last word. “1♠. No brainer. We may have a spade game so I'm not just going to raise diamonds and bypass spades. I would never pass because I have a good diamond fit, a singleton, good enough values to bid at the 1 level, and a 4 card major. In Master Solvers every panelist who predicts a unanimous panel ends up looking like an idiot. I will be the first to do this, and predict a unanimous vote for 1♠.”

 

The scores on this hand are…

Votes, scores, Panel, Members

1♠      100       8   

2♦     30       1   

Pass      10       0   

[mike777]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sa542h7dqjt5c8754]133|100|Scoring: IMP

BPO-001-D

West  North East  South

    -     1♦    Dbl   ? [/hv]

 

Why not? This is a limit bid, forcing 1 round. 4+ spades and only 6-9(10) points, because Rdbl promises 10+ HCP.” [/i]

 

The problem with 1♠ is that if LHO bids 2♥ and partner doesn’t have ♠ support, you maybe shut out of the subsequent auction. When an auction is about to turn competitive (And looking at your weak hand and short hearts, you figure this will be one of those cases), there is some sound logic to consider raising with support.

 

In Master Solvers every panelist who predicts a unanimous panel ends up looking like an idiot. I will be the first to do this, and predict a unanimous vote for 1♠.[/i]”

a*) This comment shocked me. I thought the old rdbl with all or almost all 10hcp went out the window decades ago.

b*) Is this not a reopen double since we assume support doubles?

1d=p=1s=2h

p=p=dbl?

c*) I see I disagreed with Justin on some of these bids but agree strongly with his comment of anyone thinking a bidding poll will be unanimous looks like an idiot but his not unjustified :)

[luke warm]

if rdbl=10+ went out the window, i had mine closed... i still play it that way, and very much like it... it's my view that the opps are allowed too much leeway anyhow (meaning, penalty dbls have become fewer and farther between)

[EricK]

I don't believe you Helene, you are just saying that because you don't want an unanimous poll

I also voted for 3♦ and it seemed obvious to me (which shows what I know)!

 

It may be because of what I expect from the double, but why should I look for a fit in a suit promised by my RHO when I have a minimum hand and a guaranteed fit in partner's suit.

 

Also I want to make an effort to prevent opps finding their practically guaranteed ♥ fit, or at least prevent them from accurately determing what level to play at.

 

I think the 1♠ are rather optimistic on two fronts - how their auction is likely to develop, and how their opponents' auction is likely to develop.

 

Eric

[whereagles]

What's that??

 

1♠ is 6-10 AND 1 round forcing? That's completely inconsistent.

[Chamaco]

I believe in the system, REDOUBLE shows 10+ but tends to deny a major (or -if holding a major, a REALLY flat 4333 hand), whereas bidding 1♥/♠ shows 4+ cards and, say 6/7+ hcp, UNLIMITED (e.g. a 10+ hcp hand with 4+ in major will not redouble but bid the major instead).

 

I know some play that with ANY 10+, including a 4+ card major, will redouble first, but I think this is not what the BBO-advanced system assumes.

[Fluffy]

What's that??

 

1♠ is 6-10 AND 1 round forcing? That's completely inconsistent.

That's right I guess he meant 6+.

[luke warm]

I know some play that with ANY 10+, including a 4+ card major, will redouble first, but I think this is not what the BBO-advanced system assumes.

if that's true, i need to look at it closer... rdbl to me means, "it's our hand, a penalty double is not out of the question"... this penalty x seems pretty much useless if it's only good for the minors (from responder's view)