ATB for missing vul game

[Jinksy]

[hv=pc=n&s=skt92hkqjda743c96&n=saj765ht64dkq2c42&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1dp1sp2sp3dp3sppp]266|200[/hv]

 

IMP scoring. 2♠ promised 4. 3♦ was a naturalish game try, though could still have only 4 spades.

[TylerE]

I think as N I would have just gutted it out over 2♠, especially at IMPs (you don't specify), but having heard 3♦ what else does S need to hear? So...both

[Tramticket]

Making game seems to need you to find the ♠Q. What is the form of scoring? IMPs or matchpoints? It might not be a disaster staying in 3♠ at matchpoints, but I definitely want to be in game at IMPs.

 

At IMPs, I would have probably have bid game with the North cards, rather than inviting. It gives away less info and the diamond suit isn't really the suit where you want help, so the bid doesn't help partner judge. The fifth spade tips the balance for me, but it is close.

 

Holding the South cards, I would probably have accepted the invite at IMPs, since the ♦A looks like a good card in the trial-bid suit. The ♠T9 tip the balance for me, but the Both decision is also close.

[Cyberyeti]

I would expect to have a lot of company missing this one, 1N-2♥-transfer break by whatever method I would expect a lot of people to decline the invite unless you only break the transfer with an absolute maximum.

 

In your auction can you even be 100% sure S has 4 spades ?

[eagles123]

kinda both but I blame North more, imo vul at imps with a 5th spade and KQ of partners suit, he should just bid the game rather than mucking about with game tries

[Cyberyeti]

kinda both but I blame North more, imo vul at imps with a 5th spade and KQ of partners suit, he should just bid the game rather than mucking about with game tries

 

You really want to be in it opposite Qxxx, Axx, Axxx, Qx and that's far from the worst hand partner can have, game try is reasonable, the question is whether it should be accepted.

[JanisW]

South is much too good for declining with 3♠. He could be missing the ♥Q and would have bid the same way.

Not bidding 4♠ is not unreasonable, since you don't want to be in game opposite a bad 4342 11 count, particulalrly with Qx♣

But South clearly has to make one more forward going bid with 3♥. Showing values in ♥ and asking Partner to choose between 3/4 ♠. With his undisclosed 5th trump North would've easily bid 4♠. 3♠ is to much a stop sign and North has to respect that decission.

 

regards

JW

[ggwhiz]

I had to go with south 100%. If you are going to blast game with the north hand why are you even playing natural(ish) game tries?

 

South has help period. It was a simple question and if your Ace is in clubs instead a 3♥ bid still gives north a chance.

[TylerE]

I had to go with south 100%. If you are going to blast game with the north hand why are you even playing natural(ish) game tries?

 

Because with those honors and a 9 card fit I expect to have the 34% or so equity in 4M that is required red at imps.

[smerriman]

Because with those honors and a 9 card fit I expect to have the 34% or so equity in 4M that is required red at imps.

Assuming you mean 38%, that doesn't (necessarily) mean you should bid game instead of a game try. It means bidding game is better than passing.

 

If you mean you expect to make game 38% of the time opposite a hand which can't accept a game try, then that's fair enough.

[rmnka447]

I would expect to have a lot of company missing this one, 1N-2♥-transfer break by whatever method I would expect a lot of people to decline the invite unless you only break the transfer with an absolute maximum.

 

In your auction can you even be 100% sure S has 4 spades ?

 

After a weak NT followed by Stayman (so I use arcane methods!) and a 2 ♠ bid by South, I'm blasting a 4 ♠ vulnerable game bid at IMPs. Partner's 4th ♠ just reduced the loser count in the ♠ down making the hand look more like a 7 loser than 8 loser hand. So I'm going to be aggressive and bid the game.

 

At MPs, where there's more of a penalty for reaching the wrong contract, I would just make a game try.

[rmnka447]

I'm going with blaming South on the given auction. South missed an obvious action by not bidding 3 ♥ showing values in ♥. North 3 ♦ bid improves South's hand by revealing some sort of secondary fit with South.

 

After the 3 ♥ bid by South, if I were North, the 4 ♠ bid card would be on the table in a flash.

[Jinksy]

In your auction can you even be 100% sure S has 4 spades ?

 

Yeah, this was robots, and they insist on 4 for the bid.

[helene_t]

Yeah, this was robots, and they insist on 4 for the bid.

This is not true. While they explain the bid as showing 4, they occasionally do it on 3. Partner (if a robot) doesn't seem to take it into account and will just blast 4♠ on something like 5432-KJ9-KQT-KJ9.

[nullve]

1♦-1♠

2♠-P

[MrAce]

% 100 South. Not even close!

N has flat 10 count. We all open almost all 12 hcps full of quacks and some 11 hcps. South has all prime cards and no wastage. It is IMPS. He should have a very strong reason to reject the invitation, 13 with prime cards and not 4333 does not look like one. Just ♠T9 alone means something.

[mr1303_2]

Assuming 1D was normal (as opposed to precision style), my vote was for "both you pair of cravens", but I blame South more since he has an obvious accept, whereas North might've bid game anyway since all his points are working and he has the crucial 5th spade.

 

Incidentally, these "naturalish game tries" seem to need a bit more definition. If 3D would show say 3 low, South's hand becomes a lot worse.

[kuhchung]

I'm with nullve on this one.

[cherdano]

You really want to be in it opposite Qxxx, Axx, Axxx, Qx and that's far from the worst hand partner can have, game try is reasonable, the question is whether it should be accepted.

***** happens when partner has a wasted queens and we have mirroring distributions in the side suits.

 

I really think lot of people aren't evaluating the North hand properly. KQ in partner's suit and AJ of trumps is huge. 5-4 fit is huge. Turn ♦K into ♥A or ♣A and game becomes awful.

 

(Still South should have come up with 3♥ - seems about perfect for this hand.)

[smerriman]

I really think lot of people aren't evaluating the North hand properly. KQ in partner's suit and AJ of trumps is huge. 5-4 fit is huge. Turn ♦K into ♥A or ♣A and game becomes awful.

KQ in partner's suit is only really huge if partner has the Ace of diamonds. Change Ace of diamonds into a low diamond and a club into the Ace of clubs and game again isn't great.

 

So I can't imagine why 4♠ would ever be better than 3♦ (given South should have accepted with the Ace of diamonds, otherwise what was the point).

 

Edit - I'm probably wrong, I guess all you need is the diamond jack..

[Winstonm]

I can't imagine south holding a much better hand when partner makes this game try.

[cherdano]

I can't imagine south holding a much better hand when partner makes this game try.

South is not allowed to hold two honours in the suit he opened?