no points, sorry

[david_c]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=st953ht73d965c862]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Partner deals and opens 1NT (15-17). RHO passes.

 

What do you do?

 

If you choose to pass, will you run if LHO doubles? (And if so, how?)

 

If you run immediately, how do you do it? If you bid 2♣ Stayman, what will you do if the auction goes 1NT : (p) : 2♣ : (p) , 2♦ : (p) : p : (X) , p : (p) ?

[iggygork]

I don't run, either directly or after LHO's double (and that double is for penalties in the 21st century?), passed by RHO. My hand is so barren that I am willing to take my lumps at 1NT, pard should be able to scramble some tricks. There is no guarantee that 2H or 2S will be better as my hand has no ruffing potential.

[Guest Jlall]

I pass 1N. Where am i going? i have a balanced hand, pard has a balanced hand...glp.

 

As for when they X if i run, I do not. My style is if partner has a 5 card suit he will almost always bid it (unless it really sucks). So for this reason we have nowhere to go probably. I think 1N will play as well as anything, which is probably not well at all :unsure: GLP

[mike777]

I pass 1N. Where am i going? i have a balanced hand, pard has a balanced hand...glp.

 

As for when they X if i run, I do not. My style is if partner has a 5 card suit he will almost always bid it (unless it really sucks). So for this reason we have nowhere to go probably. I think 1N will play as well as anything, which is probably not well at all :unsure: GLP

Well said.

[pigpenz]

sometimes you just have to take your medicine.......if you really wanted to make it exciting bid 3NT :lol:

[pclayton]

I run like heck. Any suit will play better than 1N and if the opponents points are balanced it will be tougher for them to double.

 

I anticipate a few hesitations over my 2♣ call along the way. :lol:

[Winstonm]

I believe this is the hand where I eat the 9 of clubs and suddenly discover that I have too few cards! :lol:

[PriorKnowledge]

i pass... if it continues X p p to me, I redbl asking partner to bid his cheapest 4card suit, which i will then pass

[HeartA]

if you really wanted to make it exciting bid 3NT :lol:

I might do that only when NV vs. VUL.

[Echognome]

Our style is to run immediately. After we've run then we take our lumps and pass 2♦X. If the opponents can get us here, then hats off to the opponents.

[luke warm]

i would have no idea which direction to run in... i'd pass after a huddle.. just kidding, as luis would say :lol:

[whereagles]

Playing strong NT pass seems reasonable. Pass again if pard doesn't bid anything over X.

 

A 3NT bid comes to mind, though. -300 is better than -500.. LOL.

[Chamaco]

Playing garbage stayman I'd bid 2C weak/strong stayman and pass any response.

 

Even when opps can double us, it is more likely they leave in the double vs 1NT than vs 2 of a suit, especially if they do have a fit in the other major.

 

The key is running BEFORE 1NT gets doubled: if you let them double 1NT, it's too late, they know they've got you; if instead you anticipate the trouble and bid immediately to a 2-level partscore, the pard of the doubler won't be so sure that his pard simply isn't competing for a partscore.

[Free]

What's the problem? Just pass and see what happens. This hand has nothing it needs for a garbage stayman since you don't have ruffing value. If partner has some ♠s, then it's just an unlucky board.

 

If LHO doubles, and it goes Dbl-pass-pass to me, the I RDbl to let partner bid his lowest 4 card...

[whereagles]

By the way, if you KNOW the left hand opp is going to double you for penalties, then there might be some point in bidding something before he does.

 

But you DONT know if he's going to do that. For all you know, points may split 17-11-0-12 and it goes 1NT (all pass), which surely must be the lesser evil. So unless you take a peek at LHO and realize he's aching to double, anything but pass is absurd.

[Fluffy]

pass first, but maybe then if playing for fun I will bid:

 

1NT - pass - pass - X

pass- pass -2♣-X

pass-pass -2♦-pass

pass-X-2♥-X

pass-pass-2♠-X

pass-pass

 

 

Wich has the advantage on finnishing on the same 2♠ contract you might have scaped, but also with opponents having to have a penalty double on 2♣, 2♦ and also may be doubling 2♠ without confidence :).

[shoeless]

pass and pass - however my regular pard and I in this situation play a semi-forcing hesitation (it's alertable of course)

[han]

I pass first and run later, in the unlikely case that they are able to double and pass.

 

If we have agreed that the redouble asks partner to bid his cheapest suit (a common treatment I think) then I would use that. Otherwise I bid 2C and redouble when this get's doubled.

[Echognome]

Hannie - XX if it asks partner to rescue is fine (since you have tolerance for all suits). I think that 2♣ and XX leads to roughly the same situation as bidding stayman and passing any bid. Neither of us can play in 2♣ if that's the best spot.

 

Playing a weak NT we're used to running from penalty doubles. There are many runout schemes, but I don't believe that XX asking partner to choose a long suit is that common (at least not in England).

 

A comprehensive list of runouts is posted here:

 

http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/dbl_1nt0.htm

[Chamaco]

I think that 2♣ and XX leads to roughly the same situation as bidding stayman and passing any bid.  Neither of us can play in 2♣ if that's the best spot.

I agree that XX/2C will land us in the same contract than garbage stayman.

 

The problem is: if we anticipate the use of garbage stayman BEFORE they double 1NT, the likelyhood of being doubled is lower (many partnership play that double is for takeout here, and more often than not, opps won't have the right t/o shape OR the double will be taken out).

 

If instead, we use an escape AFTER 1NT has been doubled, in this specific hand, any 2-level suit contract will be doubled. In this case, it will be much clearer to opps that they have the balance of power, and they'll be in a condition to decide whether doubling a 2-level partscore will payoff.

 

Of course, it makes sense to ask oneself "why should I run before they X, if I am not sure they can x ?".

Fair enough, but some time, trouble can be anticipated: with my current p, we doubled with any balanced 12 in the reopening seat vs any NT range.

[Echognome]

Agree entirely. Hence why I runout to begin with and also why I don't play Keri as I value having garbage stayman.

 

Not sure if I'd double on any balanced 12 count in passout seat (we balance on midrange plus), since if we faced each other you know the person that passed will stand the double. :)

[Guest Jlall]

Of course, it makes sense to ask oneself "why should I run before they X, if I am not sure they can x ?".

Fair enough, but some time, trouble can be anticipated: with my current p, we doubled with any balanced 12 in the reopening seat vs any NT range.

I definitely ask myself why should i run before they X. Is it so clear they both have a penalty double AND will use it? As for doubling with any balanced 12 vs any range...well...if i give my thoughts on that then i will be barred from BBO forums for profanity.

[pclayton]

The theme of this problem should be: how to avoid the axe. 800 is looming if they are allowed to double. A knowledge of the opponents methods helps. If they don't have a penalty x available, perhaps an immediate pass is best.

 

But assuming they can make a penalty x, I think an immediate 2♣ solves this better.

 

As for getting to the correct strain, I'll be happy if I catch a 2♠ call - I'll be pleased to get to a 4-3 (5-3?) 2♥.

 

As for playing 2♦, the less said the better. I'm not pulling even if playing garbage stayman to land in a 3-3 heart fit. Further, even if we are playing some silly 3-3 (even a 3-2 is possible) 2♦ contract, it will be difficult for the opponents to double, since these calls are takeout - and they both will have length! :) ;) .

[Chamaco]

The theme of this problem should be: how to avoid the axe. 800 is looming if they are allowed to double. A knowledge of the opponents methods helps. If they don't have a penalty x available, perhaps an immediate pass is best.

 

But assuming they can make a penalty x, I think an immediate 2♣ solves this better.

 

.................

 

As for playing 2♦, the less said the better. I'm not pulling even if playing garbage stayman to land in a 3-3 heart fit.

Ditto :-)

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, and I pass also, in case the opponents

double 1NT for penalty and this comes back.

 

Hopefully I play a long match against them,

because they will loose with this agreement more,

than they will gain on this hand.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe