penalty doubles

[Elipop]

When I make a penalty double at the three level, and both of us have bid, the robot bids again and we get doubled.

When do they know it's a penalty double?

[Stephen Tu]

Your guess is as good as ours, probably; the bots are terrible at knowing which doubles ought to be penalty and which ought to be takeout, and which ought to just be value showing and judging when to leave it in. The definition when you hover over the double sometimes clues you in, but often it is unhelpful and just shows some number of HCP and an unhelpful "2+" trump length. "Biddable [suit]", of the opponent's suit, indicates penalty.

 

But you should post a link to the exact hand you had an issue with, so the developers have a shot at fixing it. It is possible that your interpretation that the double should be penalty is incorrect according to modern practice (which tends to use a lot fewer pure penalty doubles than people did decades ago).

Generally doubles are penalty if your side has established a trump fit already, or late rounds in the auction; early in the auction, when there are still other possible trump suits, doubles are more often takeout or show extra values without a clear alternative call.

 

[steve2005]

Easier question: What is the meaning of life?:unsure:

[virgosrock]

Easier question: What is the meaning of life?:unsure:

 

shrouded in mystery - both the meaning of life and the meaning of GUBBO's doubles.

 

When we have a supported suit GUBBO doubles if has a stiff (not in their suit) and hopes you will find the stiff and give a ruff. Has no extra points.

 

If you happen to have 3 cards in their supported suit pull the double. GUBBO is adding points for its shortness in their supported suit.

 

Or heaven's it has QJT9 in their suit and a void outside.

 

Other than above ask for the meaning of life as steve suggests :)

[jdonn]

This is one of the most difficult and frustrating areas of GIB. Probably what GIB is worst at, identifying obvious penalty doubles. I really do believe it can be worked on one day, but it's not so easy.

[helene_t]

Josh, would it be a more feasible short term goal to make the actual meaning of the doubles (as used for sims) consistent with the way they are explained, and to make doubles mean something more than just the 3+clubs, 12-21 TP which I already promised? I don't mind so much that some doubles which ought to be penalty are defined as t/o as long as it is transparent.

 

Recently I made a "take out" double of a 4♥ bid, holding five hearts. My robot partner had a 5-0-6-2 and passed. Presumably the input to the sims was that I could have anything and due to its own void, the sims often gave me length in hearts. I suppose you can't argue with success but it's a bit silly.

[virgosrock]

Josh, would it be a more feasible short term goal to make the actual meaning of the doubles (as used for sims) consistent with the way they are explained, and to make doubles mean something more than just the 3+clubs, 12-21 TP which I already promised? I don't mind so much that some doubles which ought to be penalty are defined as t/o as long as it is transparent.

 

Recently I made a "take out" double of a 4♥ bid, holding five hearts. My robot partner had a 5-0-6-2 and passed. Presumably the input to the sims was that I could have anything and due to its own void, the sims often gave me length in hearts. I suppose you can't argue with success but it's a bit silly.

Abbess you might have found a way to penalize with length in their suit. Make a takeout double LOL. Will keep in mind.