gszes Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 [hv=pc=n&s=sa542hdakq6ckq985&w=sj6hkjt9863d7caj4&n=sq873hq5d942ct732&e=skt9ha742djt853c6&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1c3hp4hdppp]399|300[/hv] Is it possible that the programmers have decided arbitrarily to convert 4 level contract to penalty merely because they do not think they can MAKE anything they bidwhen partner makes a TOX --- the x is described as take out? This needs to be fixed and the computer should NEVER leave a tox in w/o defensive trump tricks (which theywill almost never have. That should solve these stupid (yes stupid) passes with no defense. If I am wrong to balance with this type of hand sobeit BUT the computershould NEVER EVER convert any self described TOX w/o trump tricks PERIOD (well at least through the 5 level anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virgosrock Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 [hv=pc=n&s=sa542hdakq6ckq985&w=sj6hkjt9863d7caj4&n=sq873hq5d942ct732&e=skt9ha742djt853c6&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1c3hp4hdppp]399|300[/hv] Is it possible that the programmers have decided arbitrarily to convert 4 level contract to penalty merely because they do not think they can MAKE anything they bidwhen partner makes a TOX --- the x is described as take out? This needs to be fixed and the computer should NEVER leave a tox in w/o defensive trump tricks (which theywill almost never have. That should solve these stupid (yes stupid) passes with no defense. If I am wrong to balance with this type of hand sobeit BUT the computershould NEVER EVER convert any self described TOX w/o trump tricks PERIOD (well at least through the 5 level anyway). I have been yettttttttttttttttt-ing about these defenseless passes for ages. Jdonn had hinted they are working on this about 4 to 8 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Tu Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Never ever convert without trump tricks is an exaggeration at high levels. Sometimes you just hope partner has enough side tricks to set them, as you think your contract has no hope/will get doubled, and it might be percentage to sit. This is where simulations should be able to work out what works on average. On this hand, I think the problem is it may not be properly taking into account that E as passed hand voluntarily raised to 4H, which should show some degree of trump fit/side shortness/hope of making, which also makes South's hand more shapely on average, and favor pulling. But the description of 4H just says 1+ H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2005 Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Virgo is right he has pointed out numerous examples of bad doubles (takeout or penalty)In any case it is very difficult to make a penalty double.Gib will leave in a penalty double on unsuitable hands and pull penalty double when you are destroying the opponents. And as Virgo has pointed out you can not trust a penalty double by Gib. There is no simple fix. This would be a major fix to Gib's program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virgosrock Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 Virgo is right he has pointed out numerous examples of bad doubles (takeout or penalty)In any case it is very difficult to make a penalty double.Gib will leave in a penalty double on unsuitable hands and pull penalty double when you are destroying the opponents. And as Virgo has pointed out you can not trust a penalty double by Gib. There is no simple fix. This would be a major fix to Gib's program. a workaround which has partially worked to decode these asinine doubles is e.g. if they are in 4S in a competitive auction and you have 3S pull it!!! It is adding "points" to its stiff spade. or if you have AQT9 in diamonds with diamonds bid on your right and supported, DONT double because it has a stiff or void and will pull and mostly you will get doubled in suit it pulls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerriman Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 On this hand, I think the problem is it may not be properly taking into account that E as passed hand voluntarily raised to 4H, which should show some degree of trump fit/side shortness/hope of making, which also makes South's hand more shapely on average, and favor pulling. But the description of 4H just says 1+ H.But surely the simulations are based on hands where GIB east would bid 4♥, whatever shapes they may be, vs basing them on the human descriptions? In which case the process should be flawless. Clearly some major bug in there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Tu Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 But surely the simulations are based on hands where GIB east would bid 4♥, whatever shapes they may be, vs basing them on the human descriptions? In which case the process should be flawless. Clearly some major bug in there somewhere.One would hope so, but one would have to have access to the console/text-mode output of the program to take a look at what it thinks sample hands look like. Would be really nice if they offered the current database as upgrades for us standalone GIB users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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