Not a notrumps hand surely!?

[661_Pete]

This is an interesting one, though I can't help but feel chuffed at the 'top' we gained, almost by accident...

 

Pairs MPs, N-S vul, I'm sitting S, holding:

♠x

♥KQ10xx

♦AKQxxx

♣x

 

Partner opens 1NT (12-14), East doubles. In our system, after any interference from defenders, all conventional NT responses like Stayman and transfers are 'off'.

 

I took a while thinking what to do here. Surely we must have a game here, especially as we now know where all the outstanding high cards are? But looking at those two black singletons had me running scared of NT. In the end I ventured 2♥, partner repeated his NT and I now showed 3♦. I think this must have told him all I had to tell, and when he went back to 3NT I thought it was time to trust him!

 

Yes indeed! The diamonds broke nicely, he had stops for the black suits and ten tricks were solid. One other table reached 5♦ which made, but was fewer points than 3NT +1. And the others ventured 4♥ which went down....

 

But was I just plain lucky? How should I have bid that? Suggestions welcome.

[FelicityR]

Redouble would have been my first bid. Except if the opponents can take the first seven tricks, there's a very good chance 1NT redoubled will come in. However, with the weak no-trump redouble can be used as a rescue bid. I'd rather use it as a way of saying that we have the majority of the points and the opponents are the ones to be frightened. What happens after the redouble I can only guess.

[661_Pete]

Yes, XX looks like a nice prospect! Without a score-card to hand, I couldn't begin to figure out what the score for vulnerable 1NTxx +3 would be! (1960? Not that it makes much difference in matchpoints).

 

As it happens, our brief pre-session discussion of systems (this was a new partner to me) hadn't run as far as deciding what 1NT (x) xx means! As you say, it could have been SOS!

[kuhchung]

I would not redouble.

 

2x is standard NF so that is out.

 

If 2N is some GF 2 suiter, I would do that.

 

It really depends on your agreements. If 3H is forcing then I go 3H then 4D.

[Tramticket]

What was East's double? Was it penalties? East has a maximum of 14 points - usually below strength for a penalty double. If East is competent and given that East is short of high-card strength, I'm guessing that the double is largely based on a strong running suit. For this reason and because opps are non-vulnerable, I would not redouble.

 

We have the values for game and I would simply bid 4H at these colours since I don't have a mechanism to show a strong two-suiter in this situation. I am not surprised that the field were also bidding 4H.

 

Edit: just read kurchung's response. Of course 2NT should be a strong two-suiter.

[661_Pete]

What was East's double? Was it penalties? East has a maximum of 14 points - usually below strength for a penalty double.

On this occasion the full deals have not been posted online, so I don't recall what East's holding was: you are right, it looks rather light for a penalty double. Assuming that at other tables there was no double, it seems plausible that south bid 2♦ showing ♥, then raised to 4♥. And perhaps 4♥ was off because the defence would have forced dummy in the black suits, shortening the trumps.

[ggwhiz]

I don't know what the rest of your agreements are but in any system I've ever heard of 2♥ says maybe I'll go down less than 1nt will and 3♦ says for gods sake pick a red suit to go down in before we get completely clobbered!

 

You and your partner are both playing a much different game than other weak notrumpers and need to become acquainted with the alert system.

[GrahamJson]

As others have said,any two level take out shows a weak hand and is a sign off. The traditional way of handling strong distributional hands unsuitable for a redouble is to bid 2NT.

[rmnka447]

It's hard to say exactly what to do without knowing your methods over the double. The important thing is to have a method to distinguish between hands where you are running from 1 NT and those where you've got values.

 

Let's just assume that the double shows an equal+ hand in value from the opponent.

 

You're looking at terrific 14 point distributional hand, so unless partner has opened rashly, the opponents are in big trouble. It's possible that the doubler might have a running black suit. If so, you might pay off to it. But normally, you need to make some kind of strength showing bid with this hand. So, if redouble shows a hand willing to sit for 1 NT redoubled that's the way to go. Without that, it would be best to show a suit at the 3 level which should be forcing.

 

Normally, 2 level natural bids are just natural weak runouts showing 5+ cards and an unwillingness to sit for 1 NT.

 

In your actual auction, you've shown 2 suits and partner has persisted in bidding 3 NT. Partner has heard you bids and made a judgment. So you should sit. If it doesn't work out then maybe the hand is one to review after the session. One thing you should note is that you do have a fine ♦ suit that opposite a small doubleton in partner's hand will yield 6 running tricks most of the time. That's something very important if partner may have only a single stopper in their best suit for tricks. In any case, 3 NT is normally to be strongly preferred at MPs versus 5 ♦, even sometimes if it is a bit risky.

 

BTW, if the opponent's double forces a relay, you could pass, then come in after the doubler has revealed what hand the double was made on. That way you can use the same tools you have that for direct interference over 1 NT.

[zhoraster]

Of course, it's convenient to have good agreements for such situations, especially with with weak NT opening. I played this standard SOS system:

• with one-suited weak hand, redouble
  
• with two-suited weak hand, bid lower of the suits
  
• with any strong hand, pass, which forces the partner to redouble
  
• with weak 4333, pass and then bid 2♣ over partner's redouble. he may pass with 4 cards or correct to his longest suit
  

 

Anyway, without an agreement it would be wrong to bid anything but pass here: the worst outcome would be if partner takes exactly 9 tricks in 1nt (which loses to 3nt=). If the opponents bid 2♣ or 2♠, you can improvise with 3 of this suit. If they bid anything else, double is for penalties.

[661_Pete]

Thanks to everyone for the hints and tips. One thing is obvious - there are plenty of gaps in my bidding methods, and certainly I have no idea what to do, typically, after 1NT (x) - except to pass or bid a weak take-out and hope for the best! My excuse is that, on meeting a new partner for the first time, and with only about 20 minutes at the start of the session to discuss basic methods before the call to "play please", you can't cover everything!

 

At least it's very unlikely that the same hand, and same bidding sequence, will crop up in the next few hundred boards! A tad freakish, some will say. As someone pointed out, I'm still puzzled by East's double, not having seen his hand. Perhaps he was psyching... something which I believe the club doesn't encourage!

[MinorKid]

I thought of 4♣ as Gerber... but was it off !? :o

[rmnka447]

I thought of 4♣ as Gerber... but was it off !? :o

 

 

Ok, if 4 ♣ is Gerber and partner somehow shows 2 As, now what? You know absolutely nothing about partner's hand other than partner has 2 As. Any further bid might be wrong.

 

It's better to figure out your fits first and then ask for As.

[pescetom]

Now that you've got us curious, could you look at the hands and say why 4♥ went down?

[msjennifer]

As others have said,any two level take out shows a weak hand and is a sign off. The traditional way of handling strong distributional hands unsuitable for a redouble is to bid 2NT.

[/quoteI

 

I agree. The way the bidding went I would have passed partners 3NT bid albeit a bit reluctantly.Personally I would bid 2NT over the double to show a strong two suiter GF hand.